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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 1, 2013 13:19:55 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about WAF and rules lately and as the WAF Head Referee, I would direct everyone to the USAA site.
On the site is the current rules of WAF. The WAF site has incorrect rules on it that I have been trying to get fixed since last July so if you want the current and complete rules go to usarmwrestling.com
This is the wordage for dropping below the table.
2) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in a neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position.
The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table.
The humorous bone of the competing arm will not be inclined down and therefore elevating the elbow and dropping the shoulder below the elbow pad.
LH
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Post by Chris Gangi on Apr 1, 2013 15:35:21 GMT -5
So basically you can drop below the pad if your in a winning position?
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 1, 2013 15:54:47 GMT -5
So basically you can drop below the pad if your in a winning position? Yes, just winning, as in just on your side of the table. LH |
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Post by TK on Apr 2, 2013 6:47:30 GMT -5
SO....IN A NUTSHELL? ON A WAF RULES ....YOU "CANNOT" DROP YOUR "WHOLE" BODY BELOW AND STRAIGHTEN YOUR ARM? ESPECIALLY IN A LOSING POSITION? THIS IS VERY INTERESTING. WOULD THIS RESULT IN A FOUL? NICE.  |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 2, 2013 8:22:58 GMT -5
SO....IN A NUTSHELL? ON A WAF RULES ....YOU "CANNOT" DROP YOUR "WHOLE" BODY BELOW AND STRAIGHTEN YOUR ARM? ESPECIALLY IN A LOSING POSITION? THIS IS VERY INTERESTING. WOULD THIS RESULT IN A FOUL? NICE. This is considered a dangerous position and the referee would give the command for the armwrestler to come up.......if he does so then the match continues. If he does not obey the command......then a foul is given and the match stopped. |
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Post by Tero Lampikari on Apr 2, 2013 11:10:40 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about WAF and rules lately and as the WAF Head Referee, I would direct everyone to the USAA site. On the site is the current rules of WAF. The WAF site has incorrect rules on it that I have been trying to get fixed since last July so if you want the current and complete rules go to usarmwrestling.com This is the wordage for dropping below the table. 2) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in a neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position. The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table. The humorous bone of the competing arm will not be inclined down and therefore elevating the elbow and dropping the shoulder below the elbow pad. LH 1. Good, I think kids are safe what comes to using "The King's Move" as a tactical maneuver. 2. I find the wording a bit confusing with neutral being "2/3 of the way to the losing side". Surely it is neutral also 2/3 to the winning side. That's why there has to be a definition what is meant with neutral in this rule. Couldn't the rule simply say?: A) Competing arm shoulder may drop under the level of the elbow pad only when match is on competitor's side of the table. OR B) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when not on their side of the table. OR C) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in their neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position. The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table. I understand the need to define the losing position but IMO it doesn't have to be used separating the neutral in this rule and that is why I like the C option the least. 3. So basically one can hold the opponent one inch from the pad when shoulder is above elbow pad and make a short "surge" (shoulder under the pad) to try and get the match to their side of the table? |
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Post by TK on Apr 2, 2013 13:29:06 GMT -5
SO....IN A NUTSHELL? ON A WAF RULES ....YOU "CANNOT" DROP YOUR "WHOLE" BODY BELOW AND STRAIGHTEN YOUR ARM? ESPECIALLY IN A LOSING POSITION? THIS IS VERY INTERESTING. WOULD THIS RESULT IN A FOUL? NICE. This is considered a dangerous position and the referee would give the command for the armwrestler to come up.......if he does so then the match continues. If he does not obey the command......then a foul is given and the match stopped. PRICELESS. |
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Post by John Milne on Apr 2, 2013 13:55:53 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don't think the dangerous position is a "warning". I think it's directly a foul. For the sake of safety it sure should be.
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Post by David Owens on Apr 2, 2013 14:01:13 GMT -5
Great rule but......
It has been around for a while right? I rarely see it called, and have heard from top level officials that the "pros" are allowed to pull in bad positions because they know the limits on their arms. So does that mean this rule is useless against pros or going forward will ALL hurt arm positions be called reguardless of who the puller is?
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 2, 2013 14:39:59 GMT -5
Leonard said these are WAF rules.
Am I missing something? If you are not at Unified Nationals or WAF Worlds then you are using other rules. An event organizer is free to use, or make up, any rules as he/she sees fit. A supermatch could have any set of rules the two pullers agree to.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 2, 2013 15:32:16 GMT -5
There has been a lot of talk about WAF and rules lately and as the WAF Head Referee, I would direct everyone to the USAA site. On the site is the current rules of WAF. The WAF site has incorrect rules on it that I have been trying to get fixed since last July so if you want the current and complete rules go to usarmwrestling.com This is the wordage for dropping below the table. 2) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in a neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position. The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table. The humorous bone of the competing arm will not be inclined down and therefore elevating the elbow and dropping the shoulder below the elbow pad. LH 1. Good, I think kids are safe what comes to using "The King's Move" as a tactical maneuver. 2. I find the wording a bit confusing with neutral being "2/3 of the way to the losing side". Surely it is neutral also 2/3 to the winning side. That's why there has to be a definition what is meant with neutral in this rule. Couldn't the rule simply say?: A) Competing arm shoulder may drop under the level of the elbow pad only when match is on competitor's side of the table. OR B) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when not on their side of the table. OR C) Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in their neutral or losing position. This will be considered a dangerous position. The neutral position defined as the starting position down to 2/3 of the way to the losing side of the table. I understand the need to define the losing position but IMO it doesn't have to be used separating the neutral in this rule and that is why I like the C option the least. 3. So basically one can hold the opponent one inch from the pad when shoulder is above elbow pad and make a short "surge" (shoulder under the pad) to try and get the match to their side of the table? #2 We are defining what is considered a neutral position and that is from the straight up top to 2/3 down. Anything below that is considered a losing position. It is good to define exactly what is a neutral position for many reasons but the rule is clear. Remember this is a dangerous position so that they must be given an opportunity to correct it before giving a foul. LH |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 2, 2013 15:36:30 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don't think the dangerous position is a "warning". I think it's directly a foul. For the sake of safety it sure should be. No you are wrong........the referee when calling a dangerous position must give a command to correct the position and when the competitor does not correct the position........you then and only then stop the match and give a foul. There are no warning given, just the command and then if no action is done then the foul. |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 2, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5
Great rule but...... It has been around for a while right? I rarely see it called, and have heard from top level officials that the "pros" are allowed to pull in bad positions because they know the limits on their arms. So does that mean this rule is useless against pros or going forward will ALL hurt arm positions be called reguardless of who the puller is? Maybe you were not aware of it being called, we have used it for 5 or 6 years ad I have seen it used when ever I have seen WAF rules used. Yes it is used on "Pro's" just like amateurs, the few times that it was used on George for instance.....he corrected it and frankly I don't believe that he knew that the drop was as much as it was. There are very few dropping below the table. |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Apr 2, 2013 15:45:50 GMT -5
Leonard said these are WAF rules. Am I missing something? If you are not at Unified Nationals or WAF Worlds then you are using other rules. An event organizer is free to use, or make up, any rules as he/she sees fit. A supermatch could have any set of rules the two pullers agree to. Correct in that case but for instance USAA uses WAF rules. If a supermatch wants something else then so be it, or even another promoter. The USAA switched in 2009 to WAF rules because the old rules were putting our pullers at a disadvantage when they went to USAF or the WAF. They just couldn't pull effectively when the rules were different. That is my only complaint about using other rules, it is not helping the pullers for their future matches. JMO |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 2, 2013 16:36:00 GMT -5
Great rule but...... It has been around for a while right? I rarely see it called, and have heard from top level officials that the "pros" are allowed to pull in bad positions because they know the limits on their arms. So does that mean this rule is useless against pros or going forward will ALL hurt arm positions be called reguardless of who the puller is? Maybe you were not aware of it being called, we have used it for 5 or 6 years ad I have seen it used when ever I have seen WAF rules used. Yes it is used on "Pro's" just like amateurs, the few times that it was used on George for instance.....he corrected it and frankly I don't believe that he knew that the drop was as much as it was. There are very few dropping below the table. Ok..... |
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