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Post by Pete & Tim on Nov 18, 2008 17:12:12 GMT -5
So why would we want the armwrestlers (our customers also) costs to go up? The armwrestlers costs went up with the addition of Arm T.V.!!! |
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Post by Don Underwood on Nov 18, 2008 17:17:25 GMT -5
i have my own guys i pay well, so i think you should get a full version and a highlight real with music for you charge .this cost me 250.00 per event so that i think whould be the least you could get.
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Post by Bruce Urabe on Nov 18, 2008 17:18:18 GMT -5
say there wasn't ARMTV, and you wanted to put a video of your event online with the same kind of quality that gary puts out...meaning fully edited, catching the right matches, converting...etc. how much do you think you would have to PAY someone to do that for YOUR event? That's how business is. Now I understand that Gary's business is Arm wrestling, but he doesn't have to limit his skills to that, he just chooses to offer his service...FOR FREE...to film your even and put it up. in which you could more than likely benefit in future tournaments because of the exposure you get from gary putting it up on ARMTV for you FOR FREE. IF Gary really wanted to...he could pick and choose by who PAYS HIM the most to put up there footage above and before anyone elses. He doesn't charge promoters for bandwidth or anything. do you make wedding photographers/video people pay you for filming your wedding?
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Nov 18, 2008 17:20:09 GMT -5
So why would we want the armwrestlers (our customers also) costs to go up? The armwrestlers costs went up with the addition of Arm T.V.!!! No they did not. The armwrestlers now have a great training tool that they pay for like any other tool. No one is required to join ArmTv. Your idea's will increase that tool's cost. This is nothing more than your way of causing mischief packaged as an helpful question. You really must stay up at night thinking of ways to mess with Gary. In retrospect I just feel sorry for you. |
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Post by Pete & Tim on Nov 18, 2008 17:36:41 GMT -5
Yep, that's what I do. I stay up thinking of ways to mess with Gary.  Don, I understand what you are saying but that's not where I was going with this. Bruce, you're wrong. Gary and Scott both do the same job for FREE. Gary is the only that charges you to watch it. If Scott were not free, this wouldn't be an issue. As far as wedding photographers go, you pay them to capture the days events for YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE, not for paying members to view. Two different businesses. And as far as exposure. How much "EXPOSURE" do you really think this sport gets that warrants us to have to pay Arm T.V. to come and film for US? Good feedback. Keep trying guys. |
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Post by Max Moore on Nov 18, 2008 18:00:25 GMT -5
pete does have an angle, but like i sad before i think that in the state of armwrestling now it would be foolish to ask gary to pay you as a promoter knowing the pitiful following and capital generated by the sport compared to say boxing or now even MMA.
i would be willing to bet that the if one were to look at the actual amount that the promoter was paid to put on one of those events, as a percentage, it would be very small. so if an armwrestling promoter wanted that same percentage he may actually get 5 bucks. not literally but you get my point.
should the sport blow up i think then it will be time for a revisiting of the issue at hand.
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Gene Camp
Silver Member
Founder/ President New York Arm Wrestling Association
New York
Posts: 448
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Post by Gene Camp on Nov 18, 2008 18:21:05 GMT -5
Give me a break! Without Gary and Arm TV this board would be DEAD WOOD. Just pay the membeship fee if you like what he does. If you don't like it don't join. For this kind of work he deserves every penny! and I wouldn't want his job would you? It's not easy. We always look foward to seeing him at NYC events.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Nov 18, 2008 18:53:37 GMT -5
Gene, this board has nothing to do with Arm T.V.
If anything, discussion on this board would probably increase if we didn't have video of tournaments because we would actually discuss the events instead of watching them.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Nov 18, 2008 18:55:46 GMT -5
"Don, I understand what you are saying but that's not where I was going with this."
Of course not Pete you are trying to drum up support from the promoters to make Gary pay to film the events.
"Bruce, you're wrong. Gary and Scott both do the same job for FREE. Gary is the only that charges you to watch it. If Scott were not free, this wouldn't be an issue."
Why is this the issue, no one is forced to pay Gary. Don't want to pay, then don't. Free country Pete, why are you so against free enterprise?
Again we are back to your "Lets bash Gary" agenda.
Pete are you under the assumption that Scott is going to be free forever?
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Post by Jess Simpson on Nov 18, 2008 19:49:23 GMT -5
This is really sad. I'd WOULD be eagerly looking forward to watching a professional cut of your NAA tournaments Pete, I know it's going to be a great show and lineup. BUT since I can't physically be there, I'll have to wonder how great it actually was because of this little division you're creating within our sport.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 18, 2008 20:02:54 GMT -5
Pete, you act as if there is no work involved.
I could list some things, but your response would be the usual, waaah...waaah...there you go whining...blah blah.
bottom line is most of you would not be able to do this job for any length of time. it is very tedious and actually not that fun. Editing is not for everyone.
The perks of going to events and meeting people..traveling the world..as you say. is awesome. truly. and I am very lucky. but there is some tremendous work behind it. I pride myself in the amount of work I have put into ARM TV. For me...knowing that people are paying for a service empowers me to work even harder for them. If ARM TV were free...it probably wouldn't be very good. and I would probably be doing something else.
As I have mentioned before, it is the business model that I have and is the only one that I know of that will enable ARM TV to continue to improve as membership grows and I am fully committed to put more energy and resources into ARM TV as it does grow.
I am not as cocky as I once was. I would not put up the same argument as I have before with Leonard. I am fully aware of where I would be without promoters or the armwrestlers. I am fully thankful for that...
but at the same time, I am providing a service to the armwrestlers. If a puller says the service isn't worth the cost, it only drives me to better that service. As far as Scott doing it for free. He does have a goal that he is trying to meet. He isn't traveling the world purely to donate his time and energies for nothing in return. There is an ultimate goal. And I wish him the best on achieving that goal.
I now can say what it is like to be a promoter and wish someone filmed my event. And I can only say this. With the ROTN, the more people filming the better. That is what I learned. regardless of who or why. I knew it was promoting my event.
I do think that as ARM TV continues to grow there should be some profit potential for promoters. There is a system in place right now that isn't being used to full advantage as it could. The affiliate program is in place for you to actually profit permanantly from a member being brought in. If someone wanted to truly take advantage of it they would have someone at the event signing people up directly. We are offering a commission off of that new membership for the life of the membership. There are a few people on this board who have attempted it but there hasn't been much of a return as of yet. Promoters actually stand to gain the most from this and in my opinion the return can be more beneficial than a one time payment. (you should probably read that sentence again to fully absorb)
The first year, I experimented with putting 500 dollars into the events that we were filming. We provided a cut of the entries to the promoter and this was a great way to add a "draw" to the event. (You yourself benefitted from this)
But...
This was funded by credit cards, the return was not enough to do it another year...so as I believe in the idea. We do not have enough revenue to expand on this idea. There are many goals that I would love to implement in the future that would benefit promoters and armwrestlers...
I think Leonard is right, if I were smart I would never go near another event of yours again.
Unfortunately that hurts the armwrestlers, who happen to be innocent bystanders in this mess.
and for the question...what benifit is ARM TV have on an event? Well sure itn't easy to quantify that but if you click on your banner...I see ARM TV presence all over your myspace...something like 15 clips that we are responsible for...that you paid zero for.
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Post by Jim Wagner on Nov 18, 2008 20:26:42 GMT -5
Gary- I wasnt aware of the affiliate program. I dont care about making anything, but is there a way anyone coming to an event of ours could get like a free week pass?
This would help your site, and ultimately our events, as guys like to see them selfs on ARM-TV, and when we send you video you put it up.
Many of our events are for beginners, who dont know about ARM-TV. So this would be huge toward keeping them involved.
Just curious, thanks in advance.
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Nov 18, 2008 21:30:28 GMT -5
Nice to see that Tim Parker gets it and again Chris Kaufman gets it. I do wish other promoters would speak up on this topic. So just as I thought "Nice to see that Tim Parker gets it and again Chris Kaufman gets it. " This whole thread is all a campaign to mess with Gary.If other promoters want to pay Gary to be there or let him film the events for free then what skin is it off your nose. Gary should never even think about filming anything that NAA promotes. It is one thing to say "Gary I don't want you at our events" that is your right to regulate the filming of your event but to continue with this anti ArmTv is assine. Give it a rest bully. Then tell Gary to STOP having people call me ASKING for him to film the next NAA in Feb 09. GARY, DO YOU WANT ME TO NAME THEM, just to show I am NOT LYING?...I will OUT them....He won't be filming BUT Armsportvideos WILL and its free and anyone else with a video camera can film too...... It may NOT come as a shock to MOST of you, but Pete has a point.......Now IF and when OTHER sites charge, I personally will feel the same way about them too..... Although I am one of a few that gets sponsored, I am sure there are MANY pullers out there, that FEEL for Gary, since HE too, has to pay to travel, eat ( WELL). pay for hotels ( WELL), etc, etc, just like the poor pullers do, yet eventually he gets pd off thos POOR PULLERS when they jooin ARMTV, to watch themselves....Especially during these times. If you NEED a training tool to watch, there are other sites that you can find for free, LIKE STEVE Is site in California, the one Denise and Leonard ONCE promoted over Garys when they had their LITTLE falling out......Guess thats over...... Jesse: you still will see PROBABLY the BEST card ever from NAA on Feb 21st 09, on a FREE site......We are keeping the matches a secret this time...We REMEMBER what happened last time..... Kevin Siska: This is not meant to bash you, I am only asking a question: When you had someone film you event, did they ever film an armwrestling meet before? IF not, did you help them, by that I mean, where to stand, what angles to get, film entire table ( cause sometimes you only get 1 puller, like what happened to PETE at the AAAs. funny, never saw him pull, but saw his opponents...LOL), make sure he wasn't in the way, etc, etc....... A question for siteowners: IF you use music on a paying site OR NON paying site when filming, do you have to pay royalties for the music used? |
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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 18, 2008 22:00:45 GMT -5
Jim, ofcourse. anytime anywhere.
Christian, as we get closer to the event, I am sure the phone calls will continue to happen. People have made those choices on their own. I am not instigating it.
It is our job to cover armwrestling events. The NAA has always been a great event. Our members will not understand why we are not there. If you will pm me something official as to why we are banned then I will release it so there are no questions.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Nov 18, 2008 23:29:40 GMT -5
So just as I thought "Nice to see that Tim Parker gets it and again Chris Kaufman gets it. " This whole thread is all a campaign to mess with Gary.If other promoters want to pay Gary to be there or let him film the events for free then what skin is it off your nose. Gary should never even think about filming anything that NAA promotes. It is one thing to say "Gary I don't want you at our events" that is your right to regulate the filming of your event but to continue with this anti ArmTv is assine. Give it a rest bully. Then tell Gary to STOP having people call me ASKING for him to film the next NAA in Feb 09. GARY, DO YOU WANT ME TO NAME THEM, just to show I am NOT LYING?...I will OUT them....He won't be filming BUT Armsportvideos WILL and its free and anyone else with a video camera can film too...... It may NOT come as a shock to MOST of you, but Pete has a point.......Now IF and when OTHER sites charge, I personally will feel the same way about them too..... Although I am one of a few that gets sponsored, I am sure there are MANY pullers out there, that FEEL for Gary, since HE too, has to pay to travel, eat ( WELL). pay for hotels ( WELL), etc, etc, just like the poor pullers do, yet eventually he gets pd off thos POOR PULLERS when they jooin ARMTV, to watch themselves....Especially during these times. If you NEED a training tool to watch, there are other sites that you can find for free, LIKE STEVE Is site in California, the one Denise and Leonard ONCE promoted over Garys when they had their LITTLE falling out......Guess thats over...... Jesse: you still will see PROBABLY the BEST card ever from NAA on Feb 21st 09, on a FREE site......We are keeping the matches a secret this time...We REMEMBER what happened last time..... Kevin Siska: This is not meant to bash you, I am only asking a question: When you had someone film you event, did they ever film an armwrestling meet before? IF not, did you help them, by that I mean, where to stand, what angles to get, film entire table ( cause sometimes you only get 1 puller, like what happened to PETE at the AAAs. funny, never saw him pull, but saw his opponents...LOL), make sure he wasn't in the way, etc, etc....... A question for siteowners: IF you use music on a paying site OR NON paying site when filming, do you have to pay royalties for the music used? Christian, Did Gary and I quarrel?......yes. Did we come to an understanding?........yes. Did we let people know how to view our events in the middle of that?.........yes. Did we ask Steve to stop filming our events when we came to a agreement with Gary?......No. Do you have the right to prevent Gary from filming?.......yes. My objection is your drive to get other promoters to do the same or to make it expensive for Gary to film. Again I say that Gary is better off just forgetting about your one event and move on to promoters that appreciate what he brings to our sport. Your line up being secret.....what a joke.  Do I give a rats butt who you get for your line up? Not even a little bit so go on and do your one event and be happy. ;D |
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