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Post by enginterzi on Aug 18, 2010 14:24:15 GMT -5
Do not get me wrong Engin In my opinion Hall of Fame is a place for those who earned by it that have been or are in the sport at the top for years i totally agree if it is about the Hall of Fame,which represant the famous athletes. |
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 18, 2010 14:27:26 GMT -5
i do not know who is the fastest guy in the world in masters class,do you know who he is? i do not know who is the strongest olympic weight lifter in the world in masters class,do you know who he is? in wrestling? there can be more examples.my point is that if the question is the greatest then it can not be divided to ages as how it is in the olympic games. weight class should be the only division as its in every strength sport. but if you are the greatest then you should prove this against anyone at your size,not only at your age.so in short juniors,disabled and masters can not be considered same as open class. i have never seen any sport that its masters class athletes are compared with its open class athletes in same category. I disagree wholeheartedly and will reply with one question. Name me another sport that has as many champions and elite in the age bracket of Masters and Grandmasters?  Thats why they should be included!!!!!!!!!!! you go against your own words without realising. if they are that good then they win in senior competetions as John has been doing,and they get included.if they are not that good then they get excluded. everyone should be included into the category that they performed success. |
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Post by Guy Windover on Aug 18, 2010 14:41:49 GMT -5
No I don't go against my own word. John started in his early teens to compete. What I am saying is that this "can" be a sport of later years, many starting in their 40's. Not John Brezenk fame. If you use "your" personal criteria, that it must be senior class only, then yes you are right, but others opinion that someone starting in his/her later years, is no less a champion, especially after multiple world (WAF) titles.
I am not aware of another sport as you were quoting with wrestling and such that people in there 40's 50's and 60's can still be competitive. Weightlifters are usually done in their 30's as are most professional athletes. If you had not found this sport until your mid 40's, and grew the passion that you have for it now anyway, you may have found yourself feeling different about your criteria, is all I am saying. I personally see Earl Wilsons accomplishments in no less a sense of awe then John. His feats are still very difficult to duplicate.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 18, 2010 14:59:46 GMT -5
No I don't go against my own word. John started in his early teens to compete. What I am saying is that this "can" be a sport of later years, many starting in their 40's. Not John Brezenk fame. If you use "your" personal criteria, that it must be senior class only, then yes you are right, but others opinion that someone starting in his/her later years, is no less a champion, especially after multiple world (WAF) titles. just because they started late,it does not make them as good as the best athletes in the senior categories.also it is not the fault of the senior athletes if those athletes started at their mid 40s. I am not aware of another sport as you were quoting with wrestling and such that people in there 40's 50's and 60's can still be competitive. Weightlifters are usually done in their 30's as are most professional athletes. If you had not found this sport until your mid 40's, and grew the passion that you have for it now anyway, you may have found yourself feeling different about your criteria, is all I am saying. I personally see Earl Wilsons accomplishments in no less a sense of awe then John. His feats are still very difficult to duplicate. if you have not found in this sport until your mid 40s then you just can not become one of the greatest,that is the answer.we are discussing the best ever athletes,not the best athletes in masters category. what you are saying is the another way of saying that "if this guy would have got involved in armwrestling when he was younger then he surely would be one of the best in seniors",which is only an opinion. same as some of the disabled armwrestlers.for example my friend Sureyya could be a great champion in senior classes if he was able to use his legs to balance his body at the stand-up table.but it is only an opinion.but he is still Multiple times WAF champion in disabled classes by beating other disabled guys. ok if weight lifters are done at 30s as you say and if someone finds himself in weight lifting after his 30 and for example wins masters world championships then will he be considered as great as the olympic weight lifting champions,just because he started late? if you can be competetive after 40 and you want to be considered as one of the greatest then you just go and prove yourself at where the best meets. should the ultramaster division (+60) be included in the case if someone found this sport at his mid 60s? |
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 18, 2010 15:20:29 GMT -5
i mentioned my friend Haydar in this thread as 3 times WAF champion.actually he has won his 4. WAF title in Italy over Ron Klemba.but he does not count his master WAF title with his senior WAF titles.if i win master WAF title in the future i will be happy but i will not count them WITH my senior titles.Haydar did not win senior national title in Turkey this year but i bet he can again win the master WAF title in USA this year.so how can he compare masters with seniors while he wins masters WAF title but can not win senior national title against someone that never won a medal in the world?
Haydar at the age of 39 took 2. in nationals (2008) but became the best in the World next year only because he got a year older.
being the best in the world became way too easier just because he got a year older.
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Post by Jeramie Towle on Aug 18, 2010 17:33:45 GMT -5
Art "Badger" Drewes should be on your list, 3 WAF titles along with many other wins in various tournaments over the years.
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Kevin Siska
Silver Member
IAF State Director
Albany, NY
Posts: 393
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Post by Kevin Siska on Aug 18, 2010 19:16:08 GMT -5
Where's my name. I beat everybody in middle and high school. That list is BS!!!
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Kevin Siska
Silver Member
IAF State Director
Albany, NY
Posts: 393
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Post by Kevin Siska on Aug 18, 2010 19:18:08 GMT -5
Ray Darling has multiple WAF golds as well.
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Post by tomaszwisniowski on Aug 19, 2010 6:13:03 GMT -5
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Post by Fabio Nimis on Aug 19, 2010 6:41:06 GMT -5
RustaM, not Rustan  To choose the best heavy weight is almost impossible, we will NEVER know who has been the best and strongest, we can only share our opinions... Richard Lupkes 1988-89 Gary Goodridge 1995-96 Alan Karaev 2001 Alexey Voevoda 2004 It's impossible to know who has been the best of these 4, and then someone may even add some other names (even If I would disagree on adding other names to these four). |
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 19, 2010 6:54:18 GMT -5
only John can answer this question as he is the ONLY ARMWRESTLER who has pulled all of these guys.
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Post by tomaszwisniowski on Aug 19, 2010 7:04:29 GMT -5
I agree with You Engin !
Today I will email Him this question
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Post by Fabio Nimis on Aug 19, 2010 7:07:38 GMT -5
only John can answer this question as he is the ONLY ARMWRESTLER who has pulled all of these guys. I agree Engin, would be very interesting to hear John's opinion, even if I think that for him too would be difficult to compare the guys, because John has pulled with them in different years being in different shapes, for example I think that Karaev was stronger in 1999 or in 2001 than 1998 when he pulled with John, John was too light and not in a particulary great condition when he pulled Voevoda, Gary Goodridge beat John in 1994 and then I think he became even a little stronger in 1995-96 when John chose to pull in middle weight class... The only one who John knows very well is Richard Lupkes because John pulled with him a lot of times when Richard was at his absolute prime. Anyway I agree with you Engin that John's opinion about this matter would be the best and most realistic opinion possible, surely really better than anyone else opinion |
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Post by Eric Roussin on Aug 19, 2010 7:31:12 GMT -5
I would add Cleve Dean circa 1983 and John Brzenk Spring 2006 to the list of super-heavies who were possibly the best ever.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 19, 2010 7:33:27 GMT -5
only John can answer this question as he is the ONLY ARMWRESTLER who has pulled all of these guys. I agree Engin, would be very interesting to hear John's opinion, even if I think that for him too would be difficult to compare the guys, because John has pulled with them in different years being in different shapes, for example I think that Karaev was stronger in 1999 or in 2001 than 1998 when he pulled with John, John was too light and not in a particulary great condition when he pulled Voevoda, Gary Goodridge beat John in 1994 and then I think he became even a little stronger in 1995-96 when John chose to pull in middle weight class... The only one who John knows very well is Richard Lupkes because John pulled with him a lot of times when Richard was at his absolute prime. Anyway I agree with you Engin that John's opinion about this matter would be the best and most realistic opinion possible, surely really better than anyone else opinion i agree with you but as you said at the end of your post " John's opinion about this matter would be the best and most realistic opinion possible, surely really better than anyone else opinion " for sure Karaev got bigger and bigger after 1998 golden bear but in the same year he lost to Javakhadze Vakhtang in 1998 WAF,then he lost to Ruslan Kokoev at the overalls of 1999 WAF,then again he lost to Javakhadze Vakhtang in Istanbul 2000 EAC. so Vakhtang was probably as good as Alan was then. in the past i did not think that pulling 2-3 easy matches 2 days before he pulled Golden Bear,would have effected John so much but now i think differently.also John pulled Erekle (who was untouchable then) a tough match (around 25 seconds) then pulled Alan who did not pull any match yet. IMO Alan Karaev was not the best superheavyweight ever. |
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Thats why they should be included!!!!!!!!!!!
