An easy read, floating an idea, need input.

[Giles Russell]

I have been contacted by a local owner of a SWEET venue that want's collaborate. I'm really not interested in getting involved with the same old same old. IMO, In order to grow the sport we have to make our live events more appealing and easy to watch. In my 6+ years of traveling in the sport, Travis Bagent, the NAA and Mike Bowling have came the closest to accomplishing this. We will NEVER go anywhere until the masses want to watch us. Even the very best promoters in our game ever have more than a handful of spectators and very few of them stay engaged during an entire event. Our sport in it's current format is hard to watch for more than a little while. We have got to come up with a way to find out who the better puller is in a match and at the same time keep the spectators interested. Things have got to change....

Here's some of the biggest problems I see with our current tournament model:
1. Too many classes - waters down the talent pool and takes entirely too long.
2. Getting a grip - a big waste of time and crowd killer
3. Slips - toproll v/s toproll = slips and way too many
4. No music or good M.C. = BORING

Here's my idea of a tournament format that should solve all of these problems:
- first and foremost...KICK A$$ jams playing during the event with a Dj and/or an MC
- a single OPEN class / DBL elimination bracket Right and Left hand.
- pullers will be bracketed next to the person closest to their weight
- ALL matches start in a refs grip - AND either in the STRAPS or a HOOK
- here's the *****GAME CHANGER******* the lighter of the 2 pullers at the table gets to determine where the match starts. Hook or Straps!!!
- First Place trophy and cash payout down to 5th place. Pull-off's for 3rd & 4th and 5th and 6th if necessary.

Then, we'll offer (3) R & L trophy/amatuer classes afterwards
165, 199, 200+ and possibly 1 womens class

I feel like this format will most importantly:
- determine the BEST puller in the house. WAR ZONE! While at the same time give the smaller puller a fighting chance...think small hooker beating a big toproller or vice versa. Also, you just have to get to 5th to get in the money. Also, by cutting out all of the gripping up / grab ass'ing, finger pulling and slipping (and the aggressive table slapping afterwards... ) , we will be able keep a crowd of casual spectators entertained. It should take no more than 1.5 hrs to run the pro event to completion and another hour for the Ams and then it's party time ;D
What do you guys think? Who would be interested in this type of event?

[kyledarby]

Best way to find out is try it. PISS ON HATERS. There will be atleast one. Good luck sounds rad.

[Robert Miller]

Giles.... in a word "excellent"!!!

however I'm a little biased as I love hooking & straps!! curious to see what more of the experienced guys think though... only thing I might add though.. maybe 3- weight classes. light- middle & heavy?

[Giles Russell]

That's what the trophy class would be for. Me personally, I would rather get 4th or 5th in this type of event and have wars or beat a few bigger guys than win a 98 class. I don't give a squat about trophies. Not that I have a million, but the only ones I have on display are 1st. Learned that one from my boy T. Bagent.

[John Wilson]

I love your ideas. My only feedback? simpler is better.

The idea of letting the lighter puller decide how a match goes is a great idea, but I wonder if the crowd can keep up with it or if it will just confuse them. ( I assume the crowd is people off the street who don't understand anything.)

I love everything else.

[Giles Russell]

Thanks dude

[David Owens]

Giles
I agree with John, you are going in a less is more direction and we all know you cannot please everyone so :/ do ya thing and let it bring who it brings.

When setting up a tournament what has to be considered is the reasons for having the event in the first place.

If the reason is to make money then offer every class you can get 2 or 3 guys in and get some real cheap hardware, everyone medals and you make a weeks pay in one night ( not counting your actual promoting outside of the NEB)

If your goal is as many thick classes as possible and a decent payout to the winner of each, I think Travis has found that format with NAL.

If what your looking to do is appeal to an audience then I think you are hitting the nail on the head! Do it and don't let anyone change your mind, I think It would be a badass event.
Good luck, I'm sure it will be a very fun event and maybe Travis event opened some eyes about the beauty of a one class event!

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

Great ideas, I have had similar thoughts through the years but never pushed to have an event.
I would definitely keep the " smaller guy chooses hook/strap"... Great idea, spectators won't be that in tune with the angles... They will see pins, if you are that in tune with hand position you are either an AWer or interested enough to watch the event without the smoke in mirrors.

Oh... Running foul is big, that is a must... Beyond that sounds like a big step in the right direction.
I'd be in ... Good luck bud.

[John Wilson]

The running fouls is huge. I agree one million percent on that. Nothing should ever stop a match except a pin or a slip. If you foul on the way to losing, well you lost anyway. That this sport as a whole hasn't adopted running fouls is a travesty. It's the lowest hanging fruit that ever hung from a tree.

Also totally agree with any slip goes to straps.

Take the ref out of the match, meaning gear the rules so that Stevie Wonder could referee a match from the third row of the audience. Until we can run this sport with one ref it simply cannot be a spectator sport. All he/she needs to do is start the match and call a winner, and keep track of any running fouls while the pulling is going on to see if anyone gets a restart. Aside from that the ref should be invisible.

[Giles Russell]

-Fouls will only be called when absolutely necassary.
-I'm trying to eliminate wasted time on slips. Hook and/or straps will do just that.
-open class only for cash. Doing the 199/200 split only re-opens pandora's box. U wanna get paid...then bang with the big boys. We need to put our big boy pants on and save weight classes for amatuer state, natl and world events
- also smaller man calls where it goes adds stategy and levels the playing field somewhat
- all matches stat in refs grip.

Keep the ideas coming guys. Time to think out of the box.
Hell before its over, I might turn a damn tiger loose on stage during the finals just to see what happens!

[Tommy Russell]

Or play for a boot like we used to do for basketball. You lose you get kicked in the ass!!

[John Wilson]

Jan 24, 2013 10:16:53 GMT -5 Giles Russell said:

-Fouls will only be called when absolutely necassary.
-I'm trying to eliminate wasted time on slips. Hook and/or straps will do just that.
-open class only for cash. Doing the 199/200 split only re-opens pandora's box. U wanna get paid...then bang with the big boys. We need to put our big boy pants on and save weight classes for amatuer state, natl and world events
- also smaller man calls where it goes adds stategy and levels the playing field somewhat
- all matches stat in refs grip.

Keep the ideas coming guys. Time to think out of the box.
Hell before its over, I might turn a damn tiger loose on stage during the finals just to see what happens!

LOVE IT


IRON MAN armwrestling. The way it ought to be.

It will be interesting to see if having no weight splits at all hurts the turnout. I'm thinking you may end up with all the events being 180lbs and up events. You've got the Tulliers and Cobras out there, but unless the payday is there I don't know that you'll get many non-elite lighter pullers to want to take the wear and tear. I'm a big believer that it's not weight that really matters as much as it is frame size.

But who knows? I could be totally wrong. You never know until you try. Getting to pick how the match starts could be the equalizer.

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

In tournaments run in this format you wouldn't be pulling a much bigger opponent til the finals or quarterfinals at best...
With one class you still pull guys in your range til you go the whole way ... And if you do go the whole way you are able to present a threat.... Especially given the start advantage.

[Andrew Grant]

I suspect the top rollers wouldn't be interested, especially the lighter ones that couldn't possibly beat a bigger opponent when hooked or strapped in a ref's grip.

Great discussion. Here's my two cents:

I think less weight classes (one is great) is the definitely the way to go. The fairest way to do this is to seed each round by weight.

As a top roller I am very much against the hook/strap idea. You can't possibly determine the best puller in the house if you essentially eliminate top rolling and it would make the matches less interesting. Although i do think it could have a lot of appeal for novice tournaments as they are often familiar with pulling inside but don't know anything about top rolling. Although novices probably grip up much faster and slip much less than experienced pullers anyways.

As a spectator i enjoy watching two top rollers battle outside. But yes, these type of matches usually end up in the straps. Often, i suspect, slips happen because the disadvantaged puller lets go. It's a very difficult call to make but handing out more intentional slip fouls, even to the wrong competitor, might help keep people honest. (maybe hand out a warning or foul with every slip to the person most at fault then strap them up?)

I wouldn't mind a reduced (30 second) grip up time and i think a good strict ref, not hesitant to give warnings, could make this work.

A good MC can make all the difference in keeping an audience engaged. I also think it is critical to have the brackets visible to the entire audience so everyone knows what's going on. Down time between matches can be eliminated if everybody knows who's up next.

Certainly nobody wants to see a match stopped on a minor elbow foul. I don't know much about the running foul system. Does anybody know if there is a standard document or detailed explanation available on exactly how to apply this system?

Of course, the obvious way to speed up a tournament is to add an extra table. Proper lighting at the venue with good views of the table are required. Another great feature would be a large tv/projector displaying zoomed in video of the competitors hands, especially in a larger venue. I think gripping up can be an exciting part of match, but the referees are the only ones with a good view of this. The audience finds it very very boring mostly because they can't see what's happening with any detail.

I do understand the need to expedite tournaments, but in the bigger picture the growth of our audience doesn't come from the live event but rather from the video footage.

We are never going to fill stadiums or arenas; even when standing 20 feet from the table I still can't see all the detail i'd like to. The videos will eventually reach an audience hundreds of times bigger than live events. Interviews and commentary can add some human interest ( which audiences love and need ) and all the boring parts can be edited out. To grow an audience we need to produce high quality videos from our tournaments, like what we've seen from pullerville.com. We all know our sport is exciting, we've had a large television audience in the past and we have a coolness factor unmatched by any sport. The internet is our new medium; let's give people something worth watching. I've started working on a ten camera video setup. I've purchased low cost kodak playsport zx3's (720p @ 60 fps) that will surround the table. I will choose the best angles for my final video and it would also be possible to publish all ten angles and let my audience switch between camera angles as they see fit.


Well run tournaments are essential for recruiting new pullers, best of luck.

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

You think... You have a solid group of big guys hammering each other ... Then come quarter or final time you have to pull Brandon dye, Geoff, vazgen... Etc. and start in a hook.... Could get real hairy considering the safe move at that point is roll em. There is a chance they are fresher and the shorter arms don't make life easier... I say depending on the level of pullers it could go in the lighter guys favor as much as the heavier ones