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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 11:45:59 GMT -5
I watched this clip and everyone in the room was saying without the table time, without the mileage on your arm, without the technique......there is NO way a newbie can compete with a top level pro like luke. Why ?.because chuck young didnt do it, or the people before him.....just because it may be very very rare doesnt mean it doesnt exist. if you all were to say a 165 guy beating luke id agree, but a 215 guy....beating luke and everyone acts like it cant happen..thats silly.
I get it, we all log in hours in the gym on the table , studying footage and technique.for most it takes a long time to win a novice.......its a jagged pill nobody wants to swallow to thing someone that never seen a real table could beat a vetern..so you all say it couldnt happen.
well, I say there are guys at 215 that can beat a pro 165......might be super rare, but with genetics and the right skeleton it does happen......even within their own weight class.
How do i say this if it never happened ?......it has bill cox told me of a guy that al turner tried to hustle and lost to.al turner !! My cousin ( 150 back then )never saw an aw table and pulled mark gaeta ( a real good PRO154)in a tournament back in the 80's giving away a trip to hawaii that ran for weeks........eack week my cousin would SMOKE everyone.......hit geata.had a WAR.lost, but it was close. norm devio beat him next week and darren courtemarche( who gave patton fits back then and eventually hurt norm ) the last week. he beat all other open guys in his own class except for the bests.
I was like chuck young, i never lost, i used to seek out other chuck youngs because i wanted to see who was who, hunting down undefeateds like the highlander. My cousin told me if i thought i was good look for an event.so i did. drove 3 1/2 hours to VT.bill sinks event........weigh in.......sign up PRO 198 class..about 20 guys in class....I pissed through that class. I remember people yelling toproll, backpressure and all that sh!t i never heard of.......I just grabbed low and went sideways...my hand never cracked back, i only slowed down once.first match, eric roussin beat me because i left my arm........i came up the losers bracket, stood tall and beat him.......i think he took 4th i also never pulled lefty in my life, thought id try........went to finals a side.......easy.......eric toprolled me twice in finals
but here is my first time seeing a table.......i was awkward as fu(k.....no armwrestling mileage or even a clue about the sport....... i won a big PRO class and beat guys on this board right out of the gym..in my own class nevermind 165
my very next event.I beat jerry cole and bill sinks same day....... my cousin and i walked into this sport at a high pro national level. james smith was the guy who stopped me from winning everything my first year.......besides him i beat everybody at all the big events. how i sit today is very little training, i move too much and have been all over the place...........i am built and have genetic strengths made for AW.....
this isnt a toot my own horn thing, but from experience and proof.....those guys do exist.......i know 2 personally
id like to believe that im the only freak.......but id be cautious about saying NO way and betting on the odds. people hit powerball.........real bad odds in that...but people DO hit.
guess i got tired of hearing NO way.......its a big world
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Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on Feb 15, 2012 12:06:05 GMT -5
Arm wrestlers, in general, want to believe that hard work is all that matters.
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Post by mactelle on Feb 15, 2012 12:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 12:46:43 GMT -5
Thank you Scott
Again, this isn't an "I'm so great" post But I saw every single person saying it can't happen because they don't know his name.... There are freaks out there.... there is evidence that the next 5000 never been beats will get smashed, but there are those .00001% never been beats that can show up and take your money too.
For the record, congrats Luke , but the first match looked a little shaky. I had to ask myself ( which led to me posting this ) ... " geeze, if his hand/wrist was a little bigger.... Maybe a touch stronger..... Maybe a bit more in the arm.... Even gym strong.... But a bit more, I could see him winning.
But then again, that can't happen
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 15, 2012 12:52:19 GMT -5
Of course it can happen. But the rarity of it supports the general concensus.
As the sport grows, the rarity will become less. I have always said that there are 10,000 John Brzenks in the world, they just don't armwrestle. 10,000 sounds like a big number, but it isn't. Not in a world of 3 Billion people. It's a number so far after the decimal point that it statistically doesn't matter. But it's still 10,000 people. And if 1 or 20, or 100, of those guys ends up near an armwrestling event- then you will get another RVJ.
They are out there. The sport just isn't big enough to bump into them very often.
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Post by mactelle on Feb 15, 2012 12:56:25 GMT -5
Thank you Scott Again, this isn't an "I'm so great" post But I saw every single person saying it can't happen because they don't know his name.... There are freaks out there.... there is evidence that the next 5000 never been beats will get smashed, but there are those .00001% never been beats that can show up and take your money too. For the record, congrats Luke , but the first match looked a little shaky. I had to ask myself ( which led to me posting this ) ... " geeze, if his hand/wrist was a little bigger.... Maybe a touch stronger..... Maybe a bit more in the arm.... Even gym strong.... But a bit more, I could see him winning. But then again, that can't happen actually Rob, if you turn the sound up you will hear Luke saying that he JUST got done pulling a round robin 2 weeks before and (Luke placed 2nd to Brandon Dye by the way) and Luke has been training with heavy weight days before the event...this was a LAST minute thing......Luke was MAYBE 35% strong that day....you as an armwrestler should know about that.....Luke smashed chuck and still put on a show...there was no what if or anything....That dude could not come close to Luke, even if Luke was in a coma.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 12:58:38 GMT -5
^^^^ exactly
We all have been chuck young.... How can he know any better ?
When I said " someone oblige him" ... I was meaning Tom Nelson, Abbott, mackin.... Guys at that level....he did say anyone I don't think a guy who never pulled can hang at that caliber.... Even freaks....but as improbable I could see Luke getting tossed.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 12:59:47 GMT -5
Not exactly to you Mac.... To John wilson
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 13:12:43 GMT -5
I had the sound way up.... Heard it all 35% ?.... I love when people say stuff like this Tell me , what was your formula ?.... Does Luke normally strict curl 100 lbs and that day struggled with a 35 ?.... you see that sounds ridiculous . You are right.... There is no what if, luck crushed him, my point is everyone acting like it couldn't happen any other way like chuck young was the human races last hope and best representative..... He really isn't, just a normal guy who beats other guys he meets. Luke being beat up and tired ?.... Boy, for a young , conditioned athlete that does this regularly for YEARS..... Being that off your game is suspicious to me. Ron klemba pulls for hours the week before, day before.... Night before.... A few minutes before tournament starts..... Get in 6 classes and still win. Frank Hirst, James r , bill sinks,.... They all do this I may sound like a d;ck, but since you mentioned it.... I think that round robin was a safety net.... As was being 165..... There was no losing, the ground work had been laid had the "impossible" suddenly become possible. Nobody wanted to be the one to lose to that guy so better play it safe and lay the groundwork. PS.... I dig the sarcasm, but if you don't show up on your game he might surprise you Mac
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Post by Max Moore on Feb 15, 2012 13:17:11 GMT -5
i agree with what Rob is saying...it is improbable...but not impossible and it has happened before.
there are a few examples of this that i know of: Rob V , Kurt Vickers, Dave Chaffee and i heard Matt Girdner was one of these guys.......
people have just showed up and won pro tournaments with no real armwrestling experience. novice pullers have beaten seasoned veterans.
Hell Kurt Vickers is still a novice! hes just a friggin beast. stupid strong. he has no idea how to armwrestle! lol and this is not a knock on him at all, hes been like a brother to me for at least 12 years,ask anyone else who knows him or has pulled him and they will agree that his armwrestling ability was, at least at the time that he won SEC and Nationals..... based 95% on strength. he will tell you himself that he really has no clue! lol
are there any other stories like that? who else has done similar things?
has anyone else ever just decided one day that they were gnna go undefeated at Nationals and just did it? with no preperation? Kurt has......
and yes...i am nut swinging.......
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Post by mactelle on Feb 15, 2012 13:31:19 GMT -5
[e would winequote author=robvigeant board=general thread=24199 post=340783 time=1329329563]I had the sound way up.... Heard it all 35% ?.... I love when people say stuff like this Tell me , what was your formula ?.... Does Luke normally strict curl 100 lbs and that day struggled with a 35 ?.... you see that sounds ridiculous . You are right.... There is no what if, luck crushed him, my point is everyone acting like it couldn't happen any other way like chuck young was the human races last hope and best representative..... He really isn't, just a normal guy who beats other guys he meets. Luke being beat up and tired ?.... Boy, for a young , conditioned athlete that does this regularly for YEARS..... Being that off your game is suspicious to me. Ron klemba pulls for hours the week before, day before.... Night before.... A few minutes before tournament starts..... Get in 6 classes and still win. Frank Hirst, James r , bill sinks,.... They all do this I may sound like a d;ck, but since you mentioned it.... I think that round robin was a safety net.... As was being 165..... There was no losing, the ground work had been laid had the "impossible" sudde atnly become possible. Nobody wanted to be the one to lose to that guy so better play it safe and lay the groundwork. PS.... I dig the sarcasm, but if you don't show up on your game he might surprise you Mac [/quote] i dont think there was a safety net at all.....I was positive Luke would win...Luke is a beast....and in the interview with Gary, Luke was just talking out loud....there are lots of what ifs. but a puller like you, Luke, bresnan, Todd, Nelson, Bagent, Larrett, etc. the percentage of wins to any of you from a nobody is REALLY impossible.. to someone like me there is no what ifs.....i would lose
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 15, 2012 14:03:12 GMT -5
It's all good... I really like Luke.... Great puller, real nice guy.... Plus I have this caption in my mind of him doing the cha cha slide with a couple fatties after rotn when we went out.... Cmon, that's my kind of people right there !!
I felt bad for the heat chuck took.... Imagine feeling like he did before the event, then getting beat like he did and all the cheers and I told you so against him.... He had to be in a sh;TTY spot... He ponied up the money and showed..... Didn't even perform that bad.... I give him credit How many guys never even put their arm up for fear of losing.... The fact that he stepped up and was humble afterwards says something about him
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Post by Gary Roberts on Feb 15, 2012 14:03:45 GMT -5
great post. Actually Harold did have a funny line about ...everyonce in a while someone comes along and surprises people..then he looks up and down chuck and back to the camera and says...but I don't think it will happen today. but it loooked awkward as he was about to ref the match so I cut it.
but from now on if this presents itself again..another story line like this I can have an RVJ Clause in there...
but you know the odds were against it so we were all talking in terms of what is more likely to happen. and... it was more likely Chuck was ...well Chuck..and not RVJ.
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Post by Steven Green on Feb 15, 2012 14:25:33 GMT -5
I agree improbable not impossible, well said Max.
But every time someone ask about my weird workout tool (terminator handle rocks) at the gym and I tell them I arm-wrestle I have to hear about some friend they have that can beat me. I just say maybe and leave it alone. I used to be that friend and the puller I am today would destroy the me that showed up to my first tourney.
For every 500 guys that have never been beat I can take them to practice and they will lose to Nick, Bill, Don, Me, Ethan, etc. New pullers not respecting the fact that there is technique and training involved does bother me. I had never lost until Don grabbed my arm and pulled me across the table, WOW, I had no clue such a human existed.
But I could still beat Ethan my first practice, even beat Bill once (I didnt do it again for six months)
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Post by mactelle on Feb 15, 2012 14:27:54 GMT -5
It's all good... I really like Luke.... Great puller, real nice guy.... Plus I have this caption in my mind of him doing the cha cha slide with a couple fatties after rotn when we went out.... Cmon, that's my kind of people right there !! I felt bad for the heat chuck took.... Imagine feeling like he did before the event, then getting beat like he did and all the cheers and I told you so against him.... He had to be in a sh;TTY spot... He ponied up the money and showed..... Didn't even perform that bad.... I give him credit How many guys never even put their arm up for fear of losing.... The fact that he stepped up and was humble afterwards says something about him I feel sorry for guys who train really hard for years, travel all around the UNITED STATES, compete in hundreds of tournaments, suffer injuries, sacrifice their personal lives for the sport and then lose in a really big event....... I dont feel sorry for guys who never show up or travel to tournaments and run their mouths and talk MAD sh!t and then get their ass beat... this chuck guy sounds alot like me in high school.
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