Obama wins Second presidential Debate

[Michael Bluth]

Oct 18, 2012 12:36:55 GMT -5 John Wilson said:

Oct 18, 2012 12:25:18 GMT -5 Michael Bluth said:

If you want to label the policies of the New Deal as socialist then that is your prerogative. The fact of the matter is that Socialist governments have state control of certain industries like agriculture, banking, media or energy(look at Venezuela, Cuba and others). None of these industries are state run in the US so by definition, we don't have a socialist government. The free market still controls our economy.

The New Deal absolutely was a cluster of socialist policies. No, we don't have a Socialist government, but our government does indeed follow a lot of socialist policy at times.

The New Deal, in retrospect, cause the Great Depression to go on for far longer than it would have otherwise. In the short term, many people were helped, and continue to be helped, by some of the New Deal programs. The WPA and the Rural Electrification Project were tremendously beneficial to individuals at the time. However, both of these cost enormous sums of money that did delay recovery. Both of these programs would have been far cheaper had they been handled via private contracts with a profit incentive- the way the railroads were first developed for instance.

Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security- all socialist policies. That doesn't make them evil, but it is wrong to deny they are socialist policies because they are. Do they do a lot of good? You bet! Does it require a socialist approach to do these things? No, it doesn't.

FDR was a socialist who used the New Deal to basically hand over total control of the US economy to the central and world banking system. Woodrow Wilson was a die-hard Socialist, and likely he was privately a Communist. Both of these guys did some good things, even if I believe that there are better ways to have done them.

The New Deal delaying recovery is not a widely accepted economic theory.

Like I told Kyle, just like you label liberals as "socialists" you can label certain social safety net policies as "socialist". Most republicans understand the need for these policies and have advocated for them so do we call them socialists too?

FDR did not hand over or financial system to the central bank that was Wilson, a terrible decision that he soon went on to greatly lament. It is important to note in regards to the financial system, that it was the unilateral Nixon Shock(getting off the Gold Standard to pay for an undeclared/unjust war) that created the volatility of the dollar.

[John Wilson]

I'm sure anyone who likes the New Deal would have a hard time agreeing that it delayed recovery. That's for others to worry about. What's done is done. Personally, I would not like to see it repeated. That's why I had just as much heartburn over GWB and TARP, the auto bailouts, the bank bailouts, etc. Being conservative doesn't mean I agree with anything that gets done by a guy with (R) after his name.


You are correct. I mentioned Wilson but I wrongly said FDR turned over the financial system. Your point about the gold standard is a very good one. Since then the US has had fiat currency and the only reason we're still getting by is because everyone else has fiat currency. It's bad enough when GDP is used to back the dollar, but anymore we are getting to the point where people honestly believe the Dow Jones numbers represent the shape of the economy.

[Michael Bluth]

Oct 18, 2012 12:43:09 GMT -5 John Wilson said:

Oct 18, 2012 12:38:18 GMT -5 Michael Bluth said:

It is safe to say Obama knows exactly what Mitt is talking about when he brings this up. Why he ignores that point is another issue but he does understand. You can't exactly fool everyone into thinking you are smart enough to graduate from Harvard Law and to teach it at the University of Chicago.

It is kind of ridiculous to suggest that he doesn't understand that part of the tax code.

Again it is ridiculous to suggest that Obama would want to hurt small business. In my mind(and I hope in his), a simple change to the tax code that would let small businesses(those making less than $1,000,000) to file taxes as small businesses and at a lower rate than individuals. That wouldn't be difficult and Obama has mentioned altering the tax code a thousand times. And yes I would like him to be more specific and come out and say that, but that is what we all want from all the candidates; specifics!


One would hope so, anyway. I was trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, but I have to agree with you. He is being less than honest for the purposes of holding onto his agenda.

So, the bigger question is- why is hurting business his agenda?

[John Wilson]

The quote got garbled, but I see your response in the second paragraph.

On Obama, that is where we disagree. This president has done a lot to hurt business, and I don't know why. I can speculate, but I can't get in his head. There is very little anyone can use to defend Obama when it comes to my assertion that his intent is to hurt business. He has been decidedly anti-business and this economy shows it. There is net zero growth in four years when adjusted for inflation. You would have to go back to the policies of Jimmy Carter to find the root of Obama's policy and the results have been equally bad.

As to the tax code- yes. It's a simple fix but it hasn't happened. All the president has to do is propose it. I'd love to see it, but it hasn't happened.

[kyledarby]

Look up the Oregon health engagement model Michael. You'll notice how it compliments Obama care and the Oregon health plan. Other states will start adopting similar programs given their governor has an opurtunity. Believe me it's socialism. You'vs heard of the new tax where if you sell your house you must pay a 10% tax. No this isn't a capital gains tax. A person pays taxes on an annual basis and then will be forced against their will to pay more if they sell their house. This money goes towards obamacare. Look government bailed out the banks, has involvement with schools, refuses to tap our resources hurting jobs, the economy and forcing us to pay premium prices, and they are pushing medical. They are virtually involved in every aspect of our lives. So by definition it might not be exact socialism it is very Marxist policy.

[kyledarby]

Oct 18, 2012 12:19:20 GMT -5 Michael Bluth said:

Kyle, to your other question, I am not sure which event you are referring to where dozens of Americans were slaughtered and sodomized.

Chris Stevens a US ambassador in Libya was savagely murdered and sodomized. Three other officials serving with him were murdered. This occurred on the 11th anniversary of 9/11. The Obama cabinet falsley labeled this retaliation to a low budget you tube video.

September 15 camp Badtian in Afghanistan was attacked by Taliban forces resulting in the deaths of two US marines.

The move comes amid reports that protesters jumped over U.S. Embassy walls in both Sudan and Tunisia. At least 3 people have been reported dead and another 28 have been wounded during the Tunisia attack, Reuters reports, citing state television.

Do some research I'm sure there were more. There is a saying "silence is acceptance. "

[Kenneth Fredrickson]

The president has done a lot to hurt business, but there are some businesses he has gone out of his way to help, as listed below, with tax payer dollars:

by
Bryan Preston
Bio
October 18, 2012 - 12:51 pm
President has repeatedly promised to continue investing taxpayer dollars in “green” tech companies if he is elected to a second term. If the past is any guide, America would be in for a whole lot of taxpayer-funded failures and bankruptcies. In four years, Obama’s investments have racked up 36 flops. As Mitt Romney quipped in the first debate, Obama doesn’t just use the government pick winners and losers — he just picks losers.
This list includes only those companies that received federal money from the Obama Administration’s Department of Energy. The amount of money indicated does not reflect how much was actually received or spent but how much was offered. The amount also does not include other state, local, and federal tax credits and subsidies, which push the amount of money these companies have received from taxpayers even higher.
The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:
1. Evergreen Solar ($24 million)*
2. SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3. Solyndra ($535 million)*
4. Beacon Power ($69 million)*
5. AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy ($17.1 million)
6. Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
7. SunPower ($1.5 billion)
8. First Solar ($1.46 billion)
9. Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
10. EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
11. Amonix ($5.9 million)
12. National Renewable Energy Lab ($200 million)
13. Fisker Automotive ($528 million)
14. Abound Solar ($374 million)*
15. A123 Systems ($279 million)*
16. Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($6 million)
17. Johnson Controls ($299 million)
18. Schneider Electric ($86 million)
19. Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
20. ECOtality ($126.2 million)
21. Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
22. Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
23. Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
24. Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
25. Range Fuels ($80 million)*
26. Thompson River Power ($6.4 million)*
27. Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
28. LSP Energy ($2.1 billion)*
29. UniSolar ($100 million)*
30. Azure Dynamics ($120 million)*
31. GreenVolts ($500,000)
32. Vestas ($50 million)
33. LG Chem’s subsidiary Chemical Power ($150 million)
34. Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
35. Navistar ($10 million)
36. Satcon ($3 million)*
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

[Michael Bluth]

Oct 18, 2012 14:34:33 GMT -5 Kyle Darby said:

Oct 18, 2012 12:19:20 GMT -5 Michael Bluth said:

Kyle, to your other question, I am not sure which event you are referring to where dozens of Americans were slaughtered and sodomized.

Chris Stevens a US ambassador in Libya was savagely murdered and sodomized. Three other officials serving with him were murdered. This occurred on the 11th anniversary of 9/11. The Obama cabinet falsley labeled this retaliation to a low budget you tube video.

September 15 camp Badtian in Afghanistan was attacked by Taliban forces resulting in the deaths of two US marines.

The move comes amid reports that protesters jumped over U.S. Embassy walls in both Sudan and Tunisia. At least 3 people have been reported dead and another 28 have been wounded during the Tunisia attack, Reuters reports, citing state television.

Do some research I'm sure there were more. There is a saying "silence is acceptance. "

4 + 2 + 3 = dozens?

I knew about each of these instances(they were all over the news and I saw plenty of reports come through my inbox seeing how I work intel for the Navy) I was thrown off by "dozens" and "sodomized" because Chris Stevens being sodomized has not been confirmed by any reputable news source, and there obviously weren't dozens of Americans slaughtered.

If you want to politicize terror attacks then what does that say about President Bush Jr.? Was Clinton responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing? Give me a break dude. We have not had a successful terror attack on our soil under Obama's administration. I have personally seen his defense policies within the intel community and I can say with confidence that they are working.

[Michael Bluth]

Oct 18, 2012 13:10:50 GMT -5 Kyle Darby said:

Look up the Oregon health engagement model Michael. You'll notice how it compliments Obama care and the Oregon health plan. Other states will start adopting similar programs given their governor has an opurtunity. Believe me it's socialism. You'vs heard of the new tax where if you sell your house you must pay a 10% tax. No this isn't a capital gains tax. A person pays taxes on an annual basis and then will be forced against their will to pay more if they sell their house. This money goes towards obamacare. Look government bailed out the banks, has involvement with schools, refuses to tap our resources hurting jobs, the economy and forcing us to pay premium prices, and they are pushing medical. They are virtually involved in every aspect of our lives. So by definition it might not be exact socialism it is very Marxist policy.

It's not 10%, it is 3.8% and will only affect those making over $200,000 a year and even then will only affect them if their home sale puts them over either a $250,000 earned income threshold for single filers or $500,000 for joint filers.

"So by definition it might not be exact socialism it is very Marxist policy"

So it's not socialist but they are Marxist(communist) policies? Have you ever read Marx? If you have, read it again, you obviously missed the point.

[Michael Bluth]

Oct 18, 2012 15:24:27 GMT -5 Kenneth Fredrickson said:

The president has done a lot to hurt business, but there are some businesses he has gone out of his way to help, as listed below, with tax payer dollars:

by
Bryan Preston
Bio
October 18, 2012 - 12:51 pm
President has repeatedly promised to continue investing taxpayer dollars in “green” tech companies if he is elected to a second term. If the past is any guide, America would be in for a whole lot of taxpayer-funded failures and bankruptcies. In four years, Obama’s investments have racked up 36 flops. As Mitt Romney quipped in the first debate, Obama doesn’t just use the government pick winners and losers — he just picks losers.
This list includes only those companies that received federal money from the Obama Administration’s Department of Energy. The amount of money indicated does not reflect how much was actually received or spent but how much was offered. The amount also does not include other state, local, and federal tax credits and subsidies, which push the amount of money these companies have received from taxpayers even higher.
The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:
1. Evergreen Solar ($24 million)*
2. SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3. Solyndra ($535 million)*
4. Beacon Power ($69 million)*
5. AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy ($17.1 million)
6. Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
7. SunPower ($1.5 billion)
8. First Solar ($1.46 billion)
9. Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
10. EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
11. Amonix ($5.9 million)
12. National Renewable Energy Lab ($200 million)
13. Fisker Automotive ($528 million)
14. Abound Solar ($374 million)*
15. A123 Systems ($279 million)*
16. Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($6 million)
17. Johnson Controls ($299 million)
18. Schneider Electric ($86 million)
19. Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
20. ECOtality ($126.2 million)
21. Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
22. Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
23. Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
24. Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
25. Range Fuels ($80 million)*
26. Thompson River Power ($6.4 million)*
27. Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
28. LSP Energy ($2.1 billion)*
29. UniSolar ($100 million)*
30. Azure Dynamics ($120 million)*
31. GreenVolts ($500,000)
32. Vestas ($50 million)
33. LG Chem’s subsidiary Chemical Power ($150 million)
34. Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
35. Navistar ($10 million)
36. Satcon ($3 million)*
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

Cool, another right-wing blogger with zero sources.

[kyledarby]

Well congratulations sir I'm happy that you enjoy our current economic state and want to falsely label socialist policy as capitalism so be it. There really is no reason to debate any more. Like Obama it's obvious you take partial statements and use it as a basis for your rebutle. MY PERSONAL BELIEF IS I WOULD RATHER FIGHT CANCER THAN FACE FOUR MORE YEARS OF YOUR PRESIDENT. I love, God, guns, freedom of speech, and America and if that makes me a bad person so be it.

[Robert Bishop]

Oct 17, 2012 10:06:08 GMT -5 Chris Kaufman said:

I haven't watched it yet, but I'm voting for Gary Johnson. The only way to stop the 2 party dictatorship is to vote for the candidate that ACTUALLY is closest to your beliefs. This whole lesser of 2 evils thing is BS.

And don't tell me a vote for Johnson is a vote for Obama or Romney. I've had both Romney and Obama supporters at my door asking if I'd vote for "their" candidate. I thought it was pretty funny considering I have a Ron Paul sign in my front yard. lol When I told them I was voting for Johnson, they both had the cliche response of "voting 3rd party is a vote for [Insert other 2 party puppet here]."

I got my ballot in the mail yesterday, and will be voting for Johnson. If you want REAL change, you'll do the same.

100% agree with everything you said

[Robert Bishop]

Oct 18, 2012 6:48:43 GMT -5 Ron Bath said:

do you honestly believe the libertarian party tells you the truth about everything. Remember they are all politicians. Even though I am more libertarian then any other view. Just can't think of Obama for 4 more years. Also what would get more done a libertarian president or more libertarians in the house and senate. You stand a better chance of getting them in there then in the big house at this point. Also stand a better chance of changing the view of a republican then a far left liberal (socialist). Just my opinion.

atleast the Libertarians seem to care about what is Constitutional JMO

The #1 thing i cant stand about Romney is that he will continue doing things like NDAA and others that destroy the Constitution and Bil of Rights. He has said himself that he would have signed it

The economy don't mean crap compared our rights as Americans JMO

i would rather put my trust in the law/Constitution rather than putting my trust in the government or the president who i don't even know

[Josh McEllrath]

I find this laughable that as many people have responded to this with legitimate intent to prove the other side wrong, nobody is really addressing any real issues. Just as it appears that Romney and Obama are pandering to the American people to manipulate votes nobody sees what's really going on. They are really pandering to China. China monetarily owns this country, they have bankrolled much of our debt. We are in a terrible spot financially right now. I don't care who got us here, we are here. Don't give me the "drop taxes to get people back to work bit" or the welfare story, or small business needs the opportunity to put people back to work. Not buying it. Thinking inside the box has gotten us here, we are playing by the same rules we always have, and we are expecting something the outcome to change. That is futile, and ignorant. You really want to fix this country? Here is my take:

Illegal immigration: If you are here, you stay. If the Border Patrol worked effectively in the first place, we wouldn't be talking about this. Fix the border patrol.

Medicare: Keep your damn hands off of it. Period. That goes the same for Social Security. Someone please comment on how these programs are socialist...doesn't matter. You'll have your hand out when it's time, just watch.

Small business: Quit making it hard for people to create jobs.

Energy independence: Deal with the EPA right now. Have American automakers make diesel engines, we have that leeway to make that call, they owe the American people for the bailout. New diesels do not need DEF tanks to clean up the exhaust. VW TDI's made 50mpg's back in 1996 before the EPA stepped in, idiots... Tell OPEC to stick it up their @ss, I don't need their terrorist funding oil. They will get the picture when the money stops rolling in, and they go back to riding camels. Promote energy efficiency, there is no fathomable reason why American homes should not be at least 85% efficient regarding their energy usage. You don't use more resources if you don't need them.

Taxes: Get rid of the income tax, it is old and outdated. You can make a buttload of money and spend none of it if you really want. Not saying that is easy, but it can be done. Especially if a politician is making it easier for you to do so. Institute a national sales tax. You should get taxed on what you spend, not what you make. ALL people in this country would benefit this country..people that work under the table, illegals, tourists, the rich, the poor, people on welfare, dirtbag politicians....That is our money now. Deficit will be gone shortly.

Deficit: Get rid of it. If you don't understand that, I'm not voting you in. Don't tell me deficit spending is good for the country, if you believe this you are stupid and you should fall on a knife.

Foreign policy: Give aid to countries that need it, all others can eat a d!ck. We are not a bank account. If you get aid from us AND you are holding a portion of our debt, that debt is now gone. We do not give aid to terrorists.

Legalize marijuana

Start killing some people on death row

Leave my guns alone

Close down our borders

Get rid of money in politics

Waterboard more people

Encourage self sufficiency

[troycummings]

obama wins again,END OF!!