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Post by enginterzi on Aug 19, 2006 11:38:43 GMT -5
of course that they will not pull at next WAF,there is no doubt about it if these results are from "B" samples.
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Post by Andy 'wiSë™' Barker on Aug 19, 2006 13:21:54 GMT -5
Where can i find the up to date WADA list? steve i posted all the relevant links on the armwrestling-uk board ages ago!
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Post by Malin Kleinsmith on Aug 19, 2006 19:21:23 GMT -5
There...there ANDY!!! Don´t be so rough on Steve!!! Are you going with Elaine to DUBAI??? Huuuugs, Malin
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Post by simon on Aug 20, 2006 10:40:58 GMT -5
A few quick things Until the tests are completed and both samples are either tested or the B is waived by the athlete they are not complete tests and I am unsure why this information is being released before then, if this information is being released then I can only assume the B process has been completed and the athletes have been confirmed notified, anything prior to that is premature and bad for the process. People need to remember that these are WADA standard tests the single most intense set of testing in the world of sports, an athlete could fail due to everything from being pregnant to a naturally high testosterone, to an over the counter cold medication, pain medication, legally obtainable over the counter sups, to asthma medication all the way up to generally accepted steroid substances. Here in the US where we have become very steroid paranoid, there are still tons of over the counter perfectly legal substances that you could take that will give you markers in your urine just like actual steroids that are long since illegal here in the US. Now I am not trying to say that all that failed will have exceptional circumstances, simply that before we start tossing around "the juice" we need to remember that I could drive down the street buy a product from GNC over the counter take it and test positive for Nandro without ever have taken a US controlled substance. There are masking agents however as they get found they also become illegal (everything has trace of some kind it is simply a matter of knowing to look for it). Lastly these are the problems with this kind of testing , the lack of proper information or controls out to the athletes, all we do is simply say "look at the WADA site and good luck". Additionally I still believe WADA testing does not fit our sport, something more in line with the NFL test set makes more sense and further even having conversations about 6 unknown unsubstantiated positive test simply fuels the worst part of this testing. If 6 people fail under all proper circumstances, then they do, they serve their detailed punishment and everything they have done up until they tested positive and everything they subsequently do after they serve their time should be attributed to their skill in this sport until proved otherwise by viable properly administered tests, again this is WADA testing it is very easy to fail these very strict tests, failing for massive amounts of WinV is no different than failing for a cold medicine and all of us could find ourselves up against this someday for various reasons wouldn't we all want to be treated fairly? Any athlete that knows for sure that during the course of 2006 they have not taken any substance that would fail a WADA test I invite them to think if they have taken certain pain medication, prescription medication, cold medication, over the counter medication for various reasons, legal stimulants, like you would find in energy drinks etc, or over the counter sups. If you have then you may have broken the WADA standard and if you tested then you are just as guilty as someone using WinV in the eyes of WADA, I am not saying that is right for our sport simply how it is.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 20, 2006 11:39:19 GMT -5
Simon,i would like to ask you something.there are many sports in the world that have WADA standards of doping testing.and in these sports there are many athletes from USA who compete and are being tested at WADA standards.do they have same kind of complainings about supplement stores selling products that may cause positive results in WADA doping testing?
there are so many countries that also have supplement stores that sell products which may contain forbidden substances in them.these countries have even GNCs that sell same products that you buy over there.and all those other sports that have WADA standarded doping tests,have athletes who live in these countries that sell products which may contain forbidden substances.
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Post by simon on Aug 20, 2006 13:43:47 GMT -5
Actually since I have been really paying attention to this subject of WADA and doping, the vast majority of athletes that have tested positive claim they have only taken legal supplements and must have unknowingly taken a banned substance inside of those legal supplements, I am not saying they all took tainted legal sups, I am just saying I have yet to hear anyone say, "yeah you caught me, I was knowingly taking known illegal substances." So I would say yes it is a concern throughout the sporting world. The problem I have with WADA is it just goes too far with the substances, the list is too vague and vast to be viable particularly in our sport. If we tested off of a self developed standard we could test more often because it would cost a lot less, we could test at more events faster because we could use more labs to run the tests, again after all what does our sport want to stop? Cold medicine etc. or illicit steroid use?
The body is a tricky machine, what has worked in the past may not continue to work the same way down the road so sometimes athletes that have beaten a test with a certain routine, off cycle, clear, masking agents, diets for cleansing etc will try it again without success, so unless they have access to WADA level testing themselves they take a chance of not beating the test each time.
Again one other advantage of not WADA testing is that an athlete that takes or has taken over the counter items could pay to have themselves tested to make sure they are now legal, that cannot be done with WADA standard testing.
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 21, 2006 15:36:09 GMT -5
The problem with making our own list is that we will be 2 - 3 years behind on some of these new designer drugs. This is where WADA comes in handy , they can detect these alot quicker. If we make a list we'd have to wait for WADA to publish their list at the end of the year which would be too late for us to change our list. We would then have to wait to the following year just to get it voted on which would mean 2 full years behind on every change. If there is any descrepency about whether we should ban a certain substance then another year passes. Lets leave it to the experts.
Also 99% of the people caught would deny it if they caught with it red-handed - "Gee oficer I don't know how that got in my pocket, someone must have put it there".
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 21, 2006 15:54:24 GMT -5
The problem with making our own list is that we will be 2 - 3 years behind on some of these new designer drugs. This is where WADA comes in handy , they can detect these alot quicker. If we make a list we'd have to wait for WADA to publish their list at the end of the year which would be too late for us to change our list. We would then have to wait to the following year just to get it voted on which would mean 2 full years behind on every change. If there is any descrepency about whether we should ban a certain substance then another year passes. Lets leave it to the experts. Also 99% of the people caught would deny it if they caught with it red-handed - "Gee oficer I don't know how that got in my pocket, someone must have put it there". i agree 100%. Rick,does WAF doping comittee have authority about EAF doping tests too? at the Russian web site they have declared the numbers of the positive samples,i think that these results are only from the A samples.do you know that if anyone who fails at the B sample too,will be suspended for 1 year again (as it was for Klimenko) or for 2 years as it is at the other sports?
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 21, 2006 17:14:14 GMT -5
As far as I know they folow WAF guidelines of 1 year. However in some countries where they get government funded may impose 2 years, inline with WADA.
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Post by simon on Aug 21, 2006 19:29:43 GMT -5
WADA has proven not to be on the cutting edge of designer drugs, they were way behind on Balco...so yeah they may be a year sharper than us but what good does it do us if we cannot build a viable replicatable program in every country due to cost and inability to facilitate testing, (very few WADA labs and they only test under WADA protocol)?
I would rather see a larger group tested at more events possibly year round random testing under a plan that may not have the latest designer drug on its hit list, than to continue to spend 3 times as much money administering 3 times fewer tests at the very least, while we run around testing for cold medicine against a standard we cannot properly administrate.
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Post by Willy Deneumostier on Aug 22, 2006 9:01:08 GMT -5
Ladies and Gentlemen, unfortunately - for them- we have six positives tests on the samples A during the eaf championship. The competitors and federations have been inform in regard of this test. They have 3 weeks to let us know if they want to analyse their B samples. We need to follow this procedure in regard of the WAF/EAF rules. We wait the final and full results from the Laboratory in Austria to take the final decision on this matter with the doping EAF committee and medical commission. By preventive action, these competitors can not be selected for the world championship 2006. You will be inform when the procedure will be done and the final results of this file will be published in all armwrestling sides.
Best regards Deneumostier Willy
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Post by leonard on Aug 22, 2006 10:14:58 GMT -5
It seems to me that until they refuse the "B" sample or the "B" sample comes back positive, they should not be banned from the Worlds until that point. If my "A" came back positive and the "B" was clean, I would be more than pissed to learn that I could not compete because of a false positive. I would be seeing a lawyer.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 22, 2006 10:31:55 GMT -5
It seems to me that until they refuse the "B" sample or the "B" sample comes back positive, they should not be banned from the Worlds until that point. If my "A" came back positive and the "B" was clean, I would be more than pissed to learn that I could not compete because of a false positive. I would be seeing a lawyer. Leonard,i agree with you.a slow processing should not cause to innocent athletes not being allowed to compete in the worlds. Willy,i have a question for you.is there any rule that says something like if more than 2 or 3 athletes from same country test positive then the team of this country receives a suspension?
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Post by leonard on Aug 22, 2006 19:22:17 GMT -5
Article 19
Subsection 2
d) If an athlete is found to test positive, WAF has the right to scrutinize their host country’s armwrestling program and officials for infractions against drug abuse. Countries found guilty of doping will be given a warning for a first offence; second offence will be disqualification from the event in question and third offence will be three year suspension from any WAF sanctioned event.
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Post by Alexander Pozdnyakov on Aug 22, 2006 19:33:30 GMT -5
According to Information provided today on Russian Armwrestling Association website all the 6 athletes are from Russian team. Names are promised within 24 hours.
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