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Post by simon on Aug 24, 2006 18:38:54 GMT -5
but Simon, Willy had to inform Russian federation about positive results and Russian federation did let the public to know about this info not Willy,dont you think so? Oh I understand that but if he is going to be the master and keeper of this process and protocol then he is responsible for making sure the protocol is properly followed by everyone involved including the Russian Federation.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 24, 2006 18:45:25 GMT -5
i am sure that he told Russians to keep it secret,and i believe that the rest was Russians' responsibility.
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 24, 2006 19:24:28 GMT -5
Simon,
Over 160 countries are signatory to the WADA code including yours and mine. Thousands of athletes are tested yearly. The ones getting caught are not for cold medication. They are getting caught becuse WADA is getting better at detecting the substances that hide the use of performance enhancing substances.
You make it sound like you cannot take anything over the counter. There are medications you can take for a cold. If you get sick talk to your doctor or pharmacist. Let them know that you could be getting tested. They will know what you can and can't take. Even better talk to them before you get sick so you know what can be taken and what can't well in advance and won't have to scramble at the last moment.
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Post by simon on Aug 24, 2006 19:46:15 GMT -5
Rick with all due respect this business about the countries all agreeing is BS, the countries did not agree the countries Olympic groups agreed, and they had no choice they either agree or they don't get to compete, what kind of choice is that? Do you think the USA and Canadian Olympic groups are going to tell the IOC we will agree to all of the code except the cold medication and we are OK with not getting to compete in the Olympics if you don't change that?
If you don't believe me then explain why some eastern block countries have allegedly as you put it agreed to this anti doping standard yet known steriods are over the counter legal in those same countries? If the "country" truly agreed with the anti doping policy then explain to me why those substances are not illegal in their country.
Cold medication fails you just the same as Nandro or anything else, so it does not matter what you test positive for according to WADA you are a cheater.
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Post by simon on Aug 24, 2006 19:55:03 GMT -5
i am sure that he told Russians to keep it secret,and i believe that the rest was Russians' responsibility. No it is not really the Russian group responsibilty a properly adminstrated program is responsible for everything it does, these athletes have been wronged it is the doping groups fault and now he wants us to be quite about it. Sorry that is not going to happen.
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Post by James Battles on Aug 24, 2006 22:51:59 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 25, 2006 4:41:09 GMT -5
Yes Simon a fail is a fail, but like I said not all medications will fail you. You and every puller out there has a responsibility to themselves to be informed on this matter. They need to take the initiative to check out what they are taking and whether it has banned substances.
Are you going to Manchester?
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 25, 2006 9:51:22 GMT -5
i am sure that he told Russians to keep it secret,and i believe that the rest was Russians' responsibility. No it is not really the Russian group responsibilty a properly adminstrated program is responsible for everything it does, these athletes have been wronged it is the doping groups fault and now he wants us to be quite about it. Sorry that is not going to happen. how could Willy stop Russians to put this info on their official web page?what could Willy have done other than telling them to keep this info as a secret? Willy had to let Russian Federation about the results to get answer about if they are interested to open the sample B,i do not think that Willy could hack their web page to stop them giving this info out.i am sure that Russians would find another way to give these news out even if Willy could hack their web site ;D ;D ;D . what i do not understand is why Russian Federation looks forward to give this info out before it was not finalised with B sample stage.all i know is that Russian Federation do not get along with IPAA and i for sure know that three of these athletes have been pulling in IPAA events.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 13:48:01 GMT -5
Engin do you think in the major world of sports the IOC/WADA does not have control over how information is released, do you not think that if anyone released testing information before the IOC or WADA told them they could, be it the athletes country or not that there are not strict and serious punishment measures the IOC would impose upon whomever let the information out without approval? This is a rhetorical question because I know there are.
A properly administrated policy is the is the responsibility of the administrator. I am not sure how Robert K knew in order to start this thread but I ask why did he know and why was he allowed to post the information? (Nothing against you Robert and I am not saying Kurt should have stopped him)
Last year with the testing at the WAF level we made a complete debacle out of the notification and subsequent evaluation process of Artem, I bitched and complained that I had brought this up way before the testing, with more complaining as they fumbled through the notification and the evaluation, but they did not listen nor did they learn anything so here we are again making yet another disaster out of this testing.
Very interesting point you brought up about the fact that some of the athletes they were so quick to release the names of had competed in the IPAA.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 14:00:47 GMT -5
Yes Simon a fail is a fail, but like I said not all medications will fail you. You and every puller out there has a responsibility to themselves to be informed on this matter. They need to take the initiative to check out what they are taking and whether it has banned substances. Are you going to Manchester? I know of an athlete that has been to the worlds 6 or 8 times, he does not get on the Internet really at all... just this year I had to explain to him that just because he buys the substance legally at GNC it does not mean he will not fail a drug test, he was shocked he really thought legal was legal, and he is a very intelligent man. I cannot tell you how many people have contacted me along these same lines with no understanding of how significant WADA is, simply telling our athletes to go to the WADA site and look up the substances and rules is not only a very piss poor attempt at a drug policy it is also contrary to WADA disclosure mandates. If we really want to eliminate performance enhancing drugs from our sport should we not be taking the extra steps to educate and disclose to the athletes the rules and the substances along with some explanation in order to assist them in competing clean? This process we use of simply saying "go look at the WADA site", "you are responsible for what you take" and "good luck" is nothing more than us covering our ass, candidly I think this doping movement in this sport is really not about cleaning up the sport for the sake of the sport, if it was we would be doing more to clean up the sport, to me it is really more about the powers that be in the sport being able to thump their chest to the sporting world to the effect of "we drug test" "look we are catching drug users" again if we really wanted a clean sport why are we not doing more to foster it? By that time I doubt I will be welcome in Manchester.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 25, 2006 14:05:14 GMT -5
Simon, if there is going to be a punishment about releasing the names of the athletes before the procuder being completed,then this should happen to Russian Federation for publishing the names on their "official" WEB page www.armsport-rus.ru/NewVer/ArmNewsPage358.asp?cl=news it does not matter if the info was on the Russian web site or on here at the North East board,both are wrong but it did not start with Robert either because Robert got the info from the Russians "official" web page. if Willy would have released this info other than to the responsible federation of the positive tested athletes then i would agree with you about Willy being wrong for this release.but he has informed only where he had to inform and started to wait the 3 weeks of allowed time to get the final answers from the positive tested athletes about if they wanna pay the money (for the B samples to be tested in WADA accredited laboratory) and require to test the B samples or not. the news about positive tested athletes was published at the Official Russian Federation web site,then next they published the numbers of the samples and they all being from Russia,and then they published the names very clearly www.armsport-rus.ru/NewVer/ArmNewsPage358.asp?cl=news i and some people searches Russian languaged armwrestling sites and message boards by translating them,but it is like a personal hobby as reading & writing on this board.i am pretty sure that any of the none Russian speaking official of WAF or EAF had no idea about these release until it came on this board,but once again,publishing is publishing no matter in which language since the important is the illegal source which is the official Russian web site.
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 25, 2006 14:12:47 GMT -5
If Willy informed the proper person and that person was supposed to keep it a secret and that person leaked the info. Than that person or organization should punished.
In other words. If Team Russia published this info wrongly. Than punish team Russia.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 14:13:16 GMT -5
Yes Simon a fail is a fail, but like I said not all medications will fail you. You and every puller out there has a responsibility to themselves to be informed on this matter. They need to take the initiative to check out what they are taking and whether it has banned substances. Are you going to Manchester? One more quick story Rick for those that think you should ask your doctor to make sure you stay clean. I know a multiple time WAF athlete that got Poison Oak he went to his doctor and his doctor prescribed oral Prednisone, he told his doctor look I am under WADA drug controls and his doctor said, “this is not that kind of steroid you will be fine, WRONG….. The active ingredients in oral Prednisone is banned, topical may be used with a prescription however you need a TUE to use it and compete. How responsible can the athletes be with no detailed information, no assistance and no available properly informed medical recommendations? Again I question show me the evidence we are really trying to improve this sport and eliminate drugs with this anti doping process.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 14:17:07 GMT -5
If Willy informed the proper person and that person was supposed to keep it a secret and that person leaked the info. Than that person or organization should punished. In other words. If Team Russia published this info wrongly. Than punish team Russia. Engin and Bob I agree, now I don't know where Robert got his info, but as far as the Russian Federation, well I guess we could punish them if we had anything properly detailing this issue in our protocol but we do not, again a failure in administrating the process.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 17:17:23 GMT -5
For the record I have nothing against proper drug testing I can certainly see its place in our sport, despite the fact that I do not care what my opponents take, we all have choices to make in life and who am I to judge them. I, like most armwrestlers prior to 2005 have taken plenty of over the counter substances that would fail me in a WADA drug test everything from GNC Test boosters to cold medication all legal but dirty in the eyes of WADA.
I would venture to guess that most armwrestlers continue to take something be it cold medicine or other that would fail them in a WADA test but they try to make sure they are clean before they go to the worlds. Remember cold meds fail the same as Nandro, so you are still a cheater in the eyes of WADA.
So what is cheating in this regard, upon review of WADA if you ever use a substance that will fail a WADA test you are a cheater, simply getting caught or not at the WAF’s does not make you a cheater it just makes it public, if you follow WADA you should not be using that Test booster or Trib or antihistamines ever…. if you do, you are cheat.
I have not taken any supplements this year, after I developed some stomach problems/chronic heartburn and it seemed better by not taking any pills, not vitamins no fish oil, calcium nothing and plus not dieting, but if you think I am not taking a cold remedy when I need one you are crazy, I have priorities, I have a family, a job, and a house to take care of, so if that makes me a cheater in the eyes of the WAF and WADA too bad, maybe they are the ones that have lost track of the proper priorities.
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