|
Post by josephsirois on Feb 7, 2005 19:25:53 GMT -5
Ron, my old friend Mike told me the few things I know, I hadn't seen him in years. I can't remember exactly where he was stationed in Iraq. only that he had seem some really horrific stuff. The information I relayed here is only what I've heard from him and not seen myeself, but also from what he told me one area can be completely different from another.
|
|
|
Post by Tony Carpenter on Feb 7, 2005 21:20:13 GMT -5
Ron,
One of my problems with Bush is that he relys on Cheney to much. Whenever he would hold meetings he would have the rest of his staff (perfectly intellegent and capable people) and he would only talk to Cheney. The man doesn't know how to use his resources.
Also, he withdrew funding from countries because they had anything to do with abortion. I'm sorry, but countries that are already in enough poverty don't need to be pushed into it any further because of involvement in abortion. Anti-abortion is a Cristian value, and not the only major opinion in the American public so I don't see how he has the right to dictate over the world based on that value (hence the term Reich). Granted I may be anti-abortion, but I wouldn't want the money that buys these people food and keeps them alive another day to be ripped away because of one 'possible' value flaw.
|
|
|
Post by Steven Lareau on Feb 7, 2005 23:31:21 GMT -5
I like to read the Bushisms.
|
|
|
Post by Elaine Blik on Feb 8, 2005 0:48:42 GMT -5
I have learned to keep politics out of too many mixed conversations, however, I'm going to jump in for a moment... I personally would like to see Rudy G. run perhaps with Condi as vice... perfect winning ticket. Just my opinion...
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 8, 2005 2:20:51 GMT -5
Rudy G might would win it but i think hes a punk. Before sept 11 everybody in contry hated him with a passion he was getting al kind of bad publicity then boom hes the savior of new yark and they couldnt have pulled through if it hadnt been for such great leadership. I think thats garbage. As for him i dont really know much about him except for when he and ms. bush was talking on a news show they were talking abou God and prayer and the bible and they had very poor views as far as im concerned on that issue. But it was better than most politics.
Kinda like bush, i have very dissapointed in him and the way he has handled some of the religous problems such as the ten comandments issue. I was dissapointed in that. And its not all becuase of the religoin but 80% of the poulation or more wanted that monument to stay. Thats majority thats how a democracy works.
|
|
|
Post by josephsirois on Feb 8, 2005 3:04:51 GMT -5
Actually, that's not how democracy works. We have the constitution to ensure certain barriers are maintained, such as the seperation of church and state. Would you feel the same if people wanted to post 4 Noble Truths and 8 Fold Path of Buddhism outside of a courthouse? The answer to that is simple. Just because of majority of people agree on something doesn't mean it's not illogical.
Again, this should be held in the religion thread I made.
|
|
|
Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Feb 8, 2005 10:43:26 GMT -5
Astounded! Joseph:What puppets did we insert in iraq? For the moment to get the Gov't started. BUT there was a VOTE...With OVER a thousand candidates. What part of the Countries pop. are we TRYING to stop from voting OR getting THEIR people in office?....And please not from what friends say....I can respond back with what MY friends who are over there, are saying....FACTS would be nice.
Tony: So Bush relies on Cheney to much in meetings?.....I guess you are in these meetings?
Can you explain how Bush cuts funding to a Country? Then how he can do it just because they had anything to do with abortion? And what Countries he did this to?
AND TONY: first know how Gov't works BEFORE throwing out ASSINE, DISPICABLE words such as REICH.. YOu thinking " dictating " over the World based on his value is the SAME as the 3rd REICH....KNOW your HISTORY.
Ryan:As far as 80% (?) of the population wanting the statue to stay in the Hallway of the Alabama Supreme Court Builing. I AGREE IT SHOULD HAVE STAYED.
There is no such phrase in the 1st Amendment that says seperation of church and state. So besides that, A liberal group brought the suit against the Justice who wanted to keep up the statue of the 10 Commandments. That Justice kept losing, until all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, And he lost!......THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUSH....BUSH COULD NOT STEP IN ( even if he wanted to ) AND GET INVOLVED!!!! AGAIN KNOW HOW THE GOV'T WORKS. I will explain how it works in this instance if you want.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 8, 2005 11:38:43 GMT -5
There is no seperation of church and state. Joseph. That is lies the liberal media spews and people eat it like candy. Religion has just as much if not more of an involvment in politics than anything else you can think of. Under religion falls everything else. Is there any wonder why it is the first amendment? and the second amendment ensure the first amendment will stand. They say the revolution began becuase of taxation without representation but that is one small issue among many, of which religion was the number 1 issue. Becuase the government over there wouldnt give people the freedom to choose which religion they wanted to be if any. You have the right to be atheist i have the right to be christian. We both have a voice in government, I am not silenced becuase of my involvment in the church. That concept makes me more angry than anything in the world. Your religion, and atheism is just as much a religion as christianity, leads you to make your decisions but becuase your atheist we dont know where you would fall on moral issues. You rely on your own good judgment of which you were taught the majority of your morals in a prodominantly christian nation. This is why every president has claimed christianity so people will know what moral lines they will follow more or less. Thank you Christian ;D
|
|
|
Post by simon on Feb 8, 2005 12:58:01 GMT -5
I was going to toss in a bunch of historical and political facts here but instead I will just lay my opinion on you.
The separation of church and state, for a lack of a better term was a professional courtesy, the politicians that are trying to manipulate the masses, get rich and powerful from doing so, cannot begrudge the churches doing the same thing hence the accommodation. However it has been further perverted into a set of principles that allow every wacko in the country to sue over or make issue over nothing. Anyone that does not think that this country was founded in very strong religious roots is simply kidding themselves, now having said that I do not believe that in this day and age religion has any place in the current function of our government, but by the same token I really do not care if there are religious monuments in schools or that the pledge says "one nation under god", etc.
The government at every level is basically counter functioning, we have created so many checks and balances, rules and regulations and distortions of legislation that at this juncture they are essentially non productive, the entire process is currently existing purely on the premise of problem based management, issues are never resolved they are simply band aided with more legislation and essentially there is no practical planning for the future. For all intensive purposes it is broken.
Due to the over encumbering political bureaucracy that is our government George Bush has less power as president than any president that proceeded him, the mind numbing limitations and controls render him and anyone at any level that may want to improve our country simply ineffective. It is really nothing more than a blame game now, a machine of personal career advancement, money and power, it is political dodgeball, you dodge the balls thrown at you, and you fire back as much as can, the people that can take out the most opponents and survive and rebound from their own hits, come out ahead.
The government is not even remotely representative of what the citizens of this country want or need, they operate out of the arrogant position that we the masses are not smart enough to know what is best for us, (which a large portion of society proves to be true everyday) so the government stacks the process in favor of them being able to control the entire thing, they just give us little tidbits of functions to make us think we are actually driving the process. “A government of the people, by the people and for the people” is that what we really have now?
So as far as who runs for president well it just does not matter, because they will just be a figurehead, so we might as well let Arnold run it because at least he makes for an entertaining and well known figurehead. Internationally the other countries love this guy and being a foreign born president could not hurt or foreign relations any.
One note on taxes, I do believe in the flat tax on personal income for one simple reason, it eliminates 90% of the IRS, talk about a bureaucratic sinkhole, with the same % flat tax levied against every American taken right from your check, and deducted by financial institutions upon payouts from personal investments, there will be no personal returns to file, no refunds, no payment programs to administrate, no audits, no new tax law programs to promote and manage, etc etc, imagine how many billions of dollars would be available to use in viable programs without the current tax format and the behemoth size of the present IRS.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 8, 2005 13:20:37 GMT -5
I agree simon with everything except of course naturally i do honestkly believe we need more of a moral foundation as it has been stripped away in the last 40-60 years, against the will of the people.
I say we revolt and get our country back. Christian or not this country is no longer for the people and by the people.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 8, 2005 13:33:40 GMT -5
heres a problem i have.
Why is it that i can go to prison for simply transporting a pregnant lobster yet they set up abortion clinics?
I can kill a pregnant woman and be charged for two counts of murder but if that woman goes and kills her baby in an abortion clinic she is encourged to do so?
There something seriously wrong here.
|
|
|
Post by simon on Feb 8, 2005 13:57:42 GMT -5
We need to move that to the religious thread Ryan.
|
|
|
Post by simon on Feb 8, 2005 14:52:27 GMT -5
I also believe we need to get more morality back in our country we just need to be careful where we get it from and who gets to decide what proper morality is. I have often said that you cannot legislate morality, and right and wrong is purely indicative of who you are talking to, so we will have to settle on things that the majority of America would actually have to vote appropriate to make laws for or against, predicated upon the logic that we are only voting on items that realistically can, do, or may hurt others beyond the person taking part in the act. “My rights end where yours begin”. I do not buy the destruction of the moral fabric of America arguement.
|
|
|
Post by Elaine Blik on Feb 8, 2005 14:52:31 GMT -5
Christian, I really like the way you think! I think you and I could talk some politics... Simon, you make some very good, intelligent sense... somewhat over my head on some of it, but I do agree totally on the flat tax... have always thought that would be the way to go. just my 2 cents...
|
|
|
Post by simon on Feb 8, 2005 15:03:45 GMT -5
I seriously doubt any of it is over your head Elaine, it just reads poorly because I speak like I am trying a case in court, you know the same way the most simplistic of sentences cease to make sense when the legal guys put all of their BS jargon into it.
|
|