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Post by Bob Brown on Mar 30, 2008 8:49:17 GMT -5
Leonard, I don't mean to start anything here, but isn't that what your doing when you run tourney's all year with the USAA rules (allowing elbows with no advantage), then expect pullers to go to Nationals or Worlds under different rules, and wonder why they get fouled so much? Tooche' ;D |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 30, 2008 12:05:30 GMT -5
That is a very short sided view of your referees. They are doing you no favor by letting you get away with something locally that you cannot do in a big event. As for movement the referee should as a habit not let someone do offensive movement to time the go. Some common sense stuff shouldn't have to be written down in a rule book. ;D Leonard, I don't mean to start anything here, but isn't that what your doing when you run tourney's all year with the USAA rules (allowing elbows with no advantage), then expect pullers to go to Nationals or Worlds under different rules, and wonder why they get fouled so much? I am not willing to foul out another 10-20% more match's at our events just so we comply with the WAF rule on elbows. The vast majority of our competitors do not go to a WAF worlds or to anyone else's events. You do have a point (and Bob too) about them fouling out and they will have to adjust their pulling to accommodate the change in elbow rules but we are following written rules to the letter. For that matter I have not seen that anyone else(in the US) other than WAF and the Unified , call strict elbow fouls as per the rules of WAF. Why is that? They don't want to foul out that many armwrestlers either. |
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Post by Bob Brown on Mar 30, 2008 14:06:01 GMT -5
True,
But if ALL elbow fouls were called. Everyone would stop elbow fouling and you would not have to stop all those extra matches.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 30, 2008 14:30:41 GMT -5
True, But if ALL elbow fouls were called. Everyone would stop elbow fouling and you would not have to stop all those extra matches. I can't disagree more. In Europe and at the Worlds all elbow fouls that can be called (you will miss some no matter who is doing it) is called and we are still fouling out about the same as we have been for many years. The pressure of the hit will make a certain percentage of the elbows come up and get a foul. Not to mention the pressures during the match. There is no way to stop elbow fouling. Everyone does it(including you Bob) just some do it more. The question is what to do about a elbow lift that has no impact on the match. If the rules allow the match to continue then do so, if the rules say give a foul and stop the match then we will do that. |
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Post by Bob Brown on Mar 30, 2008 15:10:04 GMT -5
Well, once again. We will have to agree to dis-agree. Remember that Harley pull were all the elbow fouls got called. Everyone was very upset on the first day. But once everyone knew it would be called the 2nd day there were much, much less fouls and that happened in just one day. If all organizations called every little elbow foul that they every saw from the beginning of the sport, we would not even be having this conversation today because no one would be fouling. We all would of learned how to apply all those pressure, before and during the match, without elbow fouls.
The problem is now that it has gone for so long its hard to stop it. Even today when we actually announce that elbow fouls will be called. Most people will still get upset when the little elbow fouls are called. And most Refs will still let the little elbow fouls go because they don't think it affects the match or feel bad about fouling someone out. If this mentality would stop, so would all the fouls.
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Post by Bob Brown on Mar 30, 2008 16:11:06 GMT -5
In rereading the rules I saw.
ITEM 5 • WARNINGS
a) Any early movement with shoulders, arm, hand or fingers will be a warning unless competitors are in a referee’s grip. Then it would be a foul.
So what Ron does is probably a Warning
and 2 Warnings is a Foul
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Post by Dimitry Sklyarov on Mar 30, 2008 19:44:18 GMT -5
The refs should start calling that, it def looks like an advantage when he does that and the opponent is not moving until the go
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Mar 30, 2008 20:08:00 GMT -5
MOVING in a REFS grip HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And is ALLOWED ALL THE TIME, by MOST "ELITE" Pullers......Shocking isn't it....  Leonard: Who I think IS one of the BEST REFs in the World does admit it, IF and when it happens at his table, when he misses it..... |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 31, 2008 10:11:20 GMT -5
MOVING in a REFS grip HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And is ALLOWED ALL THE TIME, by MOST "ELITE" Pullers......Shocking isn't it.... Leonard: Who I think IS one of the BEST REFs in the World does admit it, IF and when it happens at his table, when he misses it..... The only thing worse than missing a call is denying that it happened and then you are dishonest also. That doesn't mean that you have to agree with someone on the facts of what happened at the table but be honest if you do miss something. |
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Post by Mike Moeller on Mar 31, 2008 11:23:40 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be missing this call then since I have never seen anyone fouled for this "sway".
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Post by Ron Klemba on Mar 31, 2008 11:37:06 GMT -5
People think I am fast but actually I am very slow. I start my hit three sways before the ready as you noticed.
I can be fast but when I am my hit is faster than the speed of sight and the refs think it is early.
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Post by chrislydman on Mar 31, 2008 11:53:30 GMT -5
People think I am fast but actually I am very slow. I start my hit three sways before the ready as you noticed. I can be fast but when I am my hit is faster than the speed of sight and the refs think it is early. ;D |
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Post by Mike Moeller on Mar 31, 2008 16:48:23 GMT -5
I wasnt singling out Mr Klemba just using his style as an example. We all know we could use any help we can get to stop him. By the way I AM in his weight class!!
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Post by Jeramie Towle on Mar 31, 2008 18:25:45 GMT -5
I was not trying to start anything with the ref's in the northeast, just saying what I have noticed in my own matches from time to time. There wasn't any finger pointing at anyone in general. I have had some VERY strict refs when it comes to "refs grip" as well.
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