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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 13:17:59 GMT -5
Has anyone REALLY addressed the illegal immigration problem, or are they both kind of dodging it? For me the issues and the level of importance are as follows: - Illegal Immigration
- Iraq War
- Gas/Economy
- Health Care
I personally think if we fix the top two, it will take care of the bottom two. Thoughts?
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jun 23, 2008 16:00:30 GMT -5
The first step is to remove the law that makes it illegal for employers to ask if you are a U.S. citizen when filling out an application. Instead they need to make it mandatory to find out the status of the employee and then have the Government crack down on employers that hire illegals. If they can't work they go home. No need to deport them.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 16:52:16 GMT -5
The first step is to remove the law that makes it illegal for employers to ask if you are a U.S. citizen when filling out an application. Instead they need to make it mandatory to find out the status of the employee and then have the Government crack down on employers that hire illegals. If they can't work they go home. No need to deport them. I've heard that argument before, and it makes sense. The only problem I could see is more of them would revert to crime. I read somewhere that 33% of the US prison population are illegal. Also 36 to 42 percent of illegals are on welfare. Kind of goes against the whole "they come here to earn an honest days work."
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jun 23, 2008 21:00:06 GMT -5
The first step is to remove the law that makes it illegal for employers to ask if you are a U.S. citizen when filling out an application. Instead they need to make it mandatory to find out the status of the employee and then have the Government crack down on employers that hire illegals. If they can't work they go home. No need to deport them. I've heard that argument before, and it makes sense. The only problem I could see is more of them would revert to crime. I read somewhere that 33% of the US prison population are illegal. Also 36 to 42 percent of illegals are on welfare. Kind of goes against the whole "they come here to earn an honest days work." It works for Canada. They don't have to build huge fences. Just try to get a job there. You can come visit but no work, you gotta go.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 21:07:27 GMT -5
I've heard that argument before, and it makes sense. The only problem I could see is more of them would revert to crime. I read somewhere that 33% of the US prison population are illegal. Also 36 to 42 percent of illegals are on welfare. Kind of goes against the whole "they come here to earn an honest days work." It works for Canada. They don't have to build huge fences. Just try to get a job there. You can come visit but no work, you gotta go. Good point, I didn't know that. There's a lot we could learn from Canada, if we would/could get over our "pride". Personally, from what I've scene/heard, I wouldn't mind moving to Canada.
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 21:49:52 GMT -5
^^^^ TRAITOR!!!!!!
Just kidding I would agree with most but I still don't agree with the government health care.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 22:38:06 GMT -5
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jun 23, 2008 22:40:57 GMT -5
^^^^ TRAITOR!!!!!! Just kidding I would agree with most but I still don't agree with the government health care. Oh I agree with you on that. I have challenged all to give me just one thing that our Government has done efficiently and cost effective and no one can come up with one thing. So why should we all think that socialized health care would be anything different. Canada has some major problems with its health care system and we may not have a perfect system but I am not voting to give it over to the government to make it even worse and more expensive.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 22:44:33 GMT -5
^^^^ TRAITOR!!!!!! Just kidding I would agree with most but I still don't agree with the government health care. Oh I agree with you on that. I have challenged all to give me just one thing that our Government has done efficiently and cost effective and no one can come up with one thing. So why should we all think that socialized health care would be anything different. Canada has some major problems with its health care system and we may not have a perfect system but I am not voting to give it over to the government to make it even worse and more expensive. From the link I posted above: "Myth #2: "The government can't do anything right, why should it be entrusted to run health insurance?" If we judiciously look at history and existing public programs, we quickly see the falsity of the claim that the 'government can't do anything right'. Despite the systematic dismantlement and attack on public programs by the Right, initiatives like Social Security, free public education, fire protection services, Medicaid and Medicare (to name just a few) remain enduringly popular and effective. The most compelling aspect of free public education is that it is available to every single citizen and will not ever deny access or throw students out on the street because their parents don't earn enough money. The government does many things well, and when our lawmakers actually believe this and adequately fund public programs, they thrive. Nay-saying conservatives and libertarians would do well to answer why our publicly-owned, Single-Payer military system runs so smoothly, but a health insurance system with similar funding is not even feasible."
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 22:51:50 GMT -5
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Jun 23, 2008 23:24:58 GMT -5
HEY You!! Quit it with your links to liberal sites you SOB!!!! Oh wait thet's my mom too!!! Blahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Never mind I don't have anything intelligent to say at this point...............
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jun 24, 2008 10:51:36 GMT -5
Oh I agree with you on that. I have challenged all to give me just one thing that our Government has done efficiently and cost effective and no one can come up with one thing. So why should we all think that socialized health care would be anything different. Canada has some major problems with its health care system and we may not have a perfect system but I am not voting to give it over to the government to make it even worse and more expensive. From the link I posted above: "Myth #2: "The government can't do anything right, why should it be entrusted to run health insurance?" If we judiciously look at history and existing public programs, we quickly see the falsity of the claim that the 'government can't do anything right'. Despite the systematic dismantlement and attack on public programs by the Right, initiatives like Social Security, free public education, fire protection services, Medicaid and Medicare (to name just a few) remain enduringly popular and effective. The most compelling aspect of free public education is that it is available to every single citizen and will not ever deny access or throw students out on the street because their parents don't earn enough money. The government does many things well, and when our lawmakers actually believe this and adequately fund public programs, they thrive. Nay-saying conservatives and libertarians would do well to answer why our publicly-owned, Single-Payer military system runs so smoothly, but a health insurance system with similar funding is not even feasible." Chris here I had such high hopes for you and then this You list Social Security as a example of how well our Government is managing a program? Really? How far in debt is it? Do you know that if you took the same 7.65% and put it in the stock market or even something like bonds which don't earn squat, you would get back 10 times more money than what our Government is giving us back of our own money we payed in. You list free education as a Government program example? For your information the Fed's only contribute about 10% of the funding for K-12th grade. The rest come from the state and property taxes. On top of that we spend twice as much as other industrialized countries with much poorer results. In fact our education system is in horrible shape. You listed fire protection, funded by your city or county not the Fed's so that is not a valid example. You listed Medicare and Medicaid which both are experiencing massive increases above the private health care % of increases. The waste of money in bureaucracy in the Medicaid and Medicare takes half of every dollar allotted to it. Chris every example you listed is either funded and run by the local and state agency's or if it is run by the Feds are just not done well by any measure.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jun 24, 2008 12:14:02 GMT -5
From the link I posted above: "Myth #2: "The government can't do anything right, why should it be entrusted to run health insurance?" If we judiciously look at history and existing public programs, we quickly see the falsity of the claim that the 'government can't do anything right'. Despite the systematic dismantlement and attack on public programs by the Right, initiatives like Social Security, free public education, fire protection services, Medicaid and Medicare (to name just a few) remain enduringly popular and effective. The most compelling aspect of free public education is that it is available to every single citizen and will not ever deny access or throw students out on the street because their parents don't earn enough money. The government does many things well, and when our lawmakers actually believe this and adequately fund public programs, they thrive. Nay-saying conservatives and libertarians would do well to answer why our publicly-owned, Single-Payer military system runs so smoothly, but a health insurance system with similar funding is not even feasible." Chris here I had such high hopes for you and then this You list Social Security as a example of how well our Government is managing a program? Really? How far in debt is it? Do you know that if you took the same 7.65% and put it in the stock market or even something like bonds which don't earn squat, you would get back 10 times more money than what our Government is giving us back of our own money we payed in. You list free education as a Government program example? For your information the Fed's only contribute about 10% of the funding for K-12th grade. The rest come from the state and property taxes. On top of that we spend twice as much as other industrialized countries with much poorer results. In fact our education system is in horrible shape. You listed fire protection, funded by your city or county not the Fed's so that is not a valid example. You listed Medicare and Medicaid which both are experiencing massive increases above the private health care % of increases. The waste of money in bureaucracy in the Medicaid and Medicare takes half of every dollar allotted to it. Chris every example you listed is either funded and run by the local and state agency's or if it is run by the Feds are just not done well by any measure. Sorry to disappoint. ;D Like I said, I was just wanting to see why people are against universal health care. The link's statement sounded alright, but I wanted to know what people who were against it had to say in response. So thanks for posting your rebuttal to theirs. Makes sense. So is it basically just because OUR government sucks? Or is it because it just doesn't work? If done correctly, could it work? I would still like to hear someone who is from a country that has Universal Health Care's take on their health care system.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jun 24, 2008 13:01:33 GMT -5
Ask the Canadians how they like theirs. Did you know that in Canada if your doctor commits gross negligence and kills your baby or loved one that you cannot sue? No recourse for you. Just lump it.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Jun 24, 2008 14:43:34 GMT -5
How come it works so good in Germany?
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