Arm Wrestling is just a hobby???/:3:

[Chris Ceci]

"But, folks, this sport is not going to make you rich, you will not have corporate sponsors holding out pen and paper for you to sign a multi million dollar contract, you will not have your face plastered on the front of Sports Illustrated - it simply will not happen.

Armwrestling is fun. Armwrestling let's you travel to places some may never have gone. Armwrestling let's you meet a lot of new people. Armwrestling let's some stay in shape. Armwrestling is a HOBBY!

It's no different than playing softball or volleyball or flag football or basketball in your local rec league. You do it for fun. It gets you out of the house for a little physical activity every so often. Enjoy it for what it is. Ride the ride, experience the pleasures of winning and the disappointments of losing, but face the fact that armwrestling will NEVER put a roof over your head, clothes on your back, or food in your mouth." Karen Bean

Karen:
My God, are my eyes deceiving me. I'm going to apologize now if I affend. It's not intented to by any means. I always told myself I'd never post something that causes a disruption or arguments, but I have to say something reading the comment above has hit straight in the heart of me. Who am I but a small voice in a pool of hungry Arm Wrestlers waiting for their chance to be something great in a sport we work so hard at, year after year, training, traveling and one day waiting to hear that the I.O.C. has excepted Armsport as one of there own. This has never been a Hobby for me and not about money, but if we continue to refer to it as a Hobby I can say we may never get Olympic recognition... It's been the Dream of mine since the day I started Arm Wrestling and many others I've read on this message board. Seeing this sport get Olympic recognition. But this statement coming from the head of the A.A.A. saddens me and leaves me scratching my head. After 30 years in the sport why would you say this. If the head of I.O.C. Read this, It's just a HOBBY, coming from the head of A.A.A. Would you take this sport serious? Since the day I started Arm Wrestling I wanted to be in the Olympics. It may be a dream, but It's not only mine. If other Rec. sports are in it why not us???

"It's no different than playing softball or volleyball or flag football or basketball in your local rec league. You do it for fun." Karen Bean

Karen, this is true, we do it for fun, but Softball and Volleyball, Basketball, are also in the Olympics!! Hobby? What happened to: Yes, we can get our picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated? Yes, we can get this sport Olympic recognition. If I recall Dave Patton had a big article in Sports Illustrated. Now Allen Fisher is on a TOPPS card. That's something, isn't it? We're a huge sport, aren't we? It's about seeing this sport I love go to the Olympics, like these other so called rec. sports. If these sports, I played in gym in high school, achieve what I beleive to be the "Ultimate Goal" for any sport, Why Can't ARMSPORT?

I'm sorry Karen, we've never met, I've called many times to speak to you. I know you do all you can for this sport and I'm grateful. But reading this left me watching my Olympic Dream blow away in the wind...... I know this original post was about Steroids, and my comment is as follows, "My way of looking at steroids in our sport has always been, let this sport get to the Olympics, cause' those who use juice aren't going".

Chris Ceci

[James Battles]

Sorry Chris but you need to look a bit closer. Your naive to think that after all this time that a mere idea and a positive word is going to get any of us in this sport to the Olympic playground. Apparently you missed the point. You say you have all this aspiration for a so called dream to be center stage in what was originally a political battle of towns to see who was worthy for battle . Have you even read the history of the Olympics and the corruption it represents not to mention the evolution of the sports it accepted and how they came about?
I can appreciate your candor about ok you would love to see armwrestling make it to the Olympics . Don't worry about whether someone there would read anything and have any form of opinion to say ok they aren't worthy. Trust me it is just a little bit of a pipe dream . You should get educated about what will and how it will be able to happen. Besides a list of rules that this sport has not met but just a small part of the requirements there is the problem of marketability which falls under the area of royalties/payoffs/whatever you want to call them....
Then there is also the robbery factor which is the ante up money. Usually I think to just spring past the initial waiting list of sports that find us double digits down the latest entry of a sport in the category of Xtreme games paid them 10 million dollars to make it to exhibition level . You got some extra cash laying around? The IOC is one of the if not the most corrupt organization and they do not care who knows it. You can go and start reading the jungle of white papers at their site and it should not take you very long if you kind of read between the lines that they are money based money ran and they brag about being an 850 million dollar industry with insinuations all through it about what does any attempting entrance sport have to offer them. Karen Bean along with all these other people have approached and talked with people all along the chain of command for years to work in the direction and have had the rules besides this money factor explained to them thoroughly . They have all worked in that direction trying to get us the amount of participating countries and under the umbrella of a larger sport that we would be a sub sport under . They have all worked on drug policy and discussed in length about the protocol of the WADA organization which is another facet that is an organization of its own. That is another jungle you should read about and how they work every year to find another substance right down to caffeine itself and add some rule about it that will increase the cost of testing to where presently just one persons exam is about 400 dollars. Big Business, arrogant high rollers ..... jeez the thought of what everyone here has gone through only to be put on hold and rejected along with being redirected and smoke and mirrors is enough to make anyone want to puke. Maybe you should have read closer the full write up from Simon and how he has followed the yellow brick road.
Look around at alot of these other sports. Presently I think that Xtreme sports is working in the direction of its own support. It gets some of a lift from having the slots which it bought but xtreme games when compared to the Olympics works year round not every four years and they generate alot more money pound for pound. I am sure they are quite sick of their involvement as well but polls show that it is a stepping stone to allow them to structure themselves to grow even bigger by its lure. Nevertheless Political/corrupt/money based and bring your lawyers. Did you know that the IOC sued the Special Olympics because they used the word Olympics in their name? Do some homework and yes you were right when you tried to make the promise that you were not going to jump first and look later.
Karen Bean simply stated the truth. She did not sugar coat it. What is the United States doing for anyone to assist them in training camps in preparation etc etc etc? In other countries and while it is menial in some the funding is something they can get by on. I will give you a broad for instance and it moved into the money category because he made it that way although I don't know what he is doing right now. The wrestlers name is Ivakin Taras. I hope he forgives me for this. when I talked with him some years back he was teaching at the university of Moscow I think as a level 2 or 3 physical education instructor. The school would pay him for his job and the country would afford his travel to the tournaments. I guess the country was the Ukraine where he is a celebrity basically then he would get 100 dollars I believe to feed himself and survive on while there. That was it and apparently it was worth working very hard to maintain. Now in Russia in this day in time I think the people have discovered that sponsors which could be a bit of organized private groups lets say are better than what the country can offer but I guess they still do. The other countries athletes work under precarious positions where they have to produce or be looking for something else to survive on. We have all been down a very long road and perhaps you were not around for alot of the journey. Everyone should remember to consider walking a mile in another persons shoes before passing any judgmental public opinion on them for what they say in earnest .
Karen was speaking from experience as I believe others will tell you much the same. Don't hold your breathe and certainly try and lose the opinion that the sky is going to fall if any of this is read by some arrogant controlling secret spy sector of the Olympic committee. Trust me they are not there. They wouldn't even taint their hands with direct contact with us unless we were wagging the 10mil in unmarked bills at them. It is FILA we would have to deal with and they are busy funding their own version of sports that does not depend on the four year out of the coffin to suck the life out of all it comes in contact with.
In order for us to make any ground we need something to sell ...... I don't know maybe girl scout cookies. That would be more profitable than chalk. Other than that we have little that is appealing other than novelty armwrestling quotations on apparel. Then on top of that we need Unity which everyone is working desperately yearly to move in that direction. Meanwhile the reality of the structure of the sport and its ability to produce income by events is always being worked on . The simple fact is this thing that armwrestling faces that has stopped it from hitting the bigtime so to speak has been around since the beginning. Factors involved but not limited to include the unwillingness of some people to compete at something that can cause enough trauma to cost a cool 10 grand at the emergency room at anytime and the idea they may be the one without enough Milk in their diet. Then you have the crowd appeal. We have worked on that one over and over and over. People like to watch some armwrestling but they lose a bit of interest when they have to sit for 8 to 10 hours and watch two or three hundred matches to see who is gonna be the winner. You might have noticed a post earlier where Leonard stated that back in the days of petaluma they would always bring the previous years champion back to await the finals so as to show consistency each year with returning faces. What is that kind of format going to be looking like to any groups? IOC or whoever.......
We are at a crossroads..... Circus or sport .... Money for dinner and a show or sport and waiting in long lines and sleeping in our cars because the gas to get somewhere was all we could afford. so on and so on.... Ponder a while. Please don't get mad. This too was an honest opinion based on many years of abuse and still a love for a sport and an acceptance of what is. I am not gonna give it up after all that . Are You? night , James

[Chris Ceci]

"a mere idea and a positive word is going to get any of us in this sport to the Olympic playground. Apparently you missed the point".

James, nice to meet you. Read a lot about you over the years. I never said a mere idea or a positive word would get us in. Pipe Dreams?? Is that what it is to you? Well if thats what a World Champion feels, I'm not sure what to say. Thanks for your explanation of The Olympic Commitee. But your missing the point, This is not a hobby sport, not to me. Maybe to you, but not to me, and a lot of other Arm Wrestlers. I also commended her (Karen)for all she has done with the sport, guess you missed that. No I haven't walked a mile in her Arm Wrestling shoes. But the statements that were made don't sound positive, especially when I here the word NEVER. In my world Arm Wrestling, Olympics,and the word "Never",dont mix.

[Pete & Tim]

Chris, wake up. Armwrestling /Wristwrestling has been in every aspect of the media and has been around for over 50 years as an organized sport. To think that one day, it will be an Olympic Sport is funED!!!

Stop being a god damn fun!!!!

It's a hobby, it's fun, it's something we all enjoy doing.

It will NEVER be anymore than that. It had it's one and only shot of ever becoming anything more than that years ago when it was on National Television and it went NOWHERE!!! 16 years of National Television coverage, Articles in numerous magazines, World Wide Exposure and we are still dreaming of the Olympics.

Why?

Chris, I don't know you and I don't share your dream. I'm a realist and I BELIEVE that Armwrestling will NEVER be anything more than what it is today. I also do not think it will ever even come close to what it once was.

Good Luck with your dream. Martin Luther King jr. had a dream once too and he payed one hell of a price for his dream. I'm sorry but Armwrestling will never be in the Olympics.

Have a nice day. ;D

[James Battles]

I am glad you have so much Vigor. I was not just referencing Karen I am sure you noticed . More than likely others will have something to say. They meaning all the promoters in all the countries have made efforts to see this thing through for many years. It was my dream in 1979 when I started trying to find tournaments and then we ran into Tim Riley and Bobby Hopkins Sr. along with many more. The group was big even in the early 80s. When I was in Salt lake this year I ran into several of the guys I met back then as well. They are all old and Grey now and they have all been down the road. I afforded myself trips to India via. Amsterdam, Russia twice,Egypt twice, Italy , Brazil , Japan and now Canada. I love the sport . I drove with my family as far as Vermont,Massachusetts,Connecticut,Buffalo and so many trips to Virginia it was not considered to be a long drive. My first year competing in Florida I did 10 or 11 tournaments. We drove to Houston twice for nationals that saw 30 guys per class.
If you were to count up my hobby investment I think it would be quite a bit of money and as time went by it only became more expensive. I didn't want it to be a hobby but eventually the hopes that things would grow and be discovered faded. I remember at Over the Top in Vegas we all thought that it would make us bigger than life but the critics crashed that party with the same Moniker that has kept it down for many years referring to the Bar Room as home of the sport I held in Great regard. The majority of the tournaments I have attended in my lifetime have not been in a bar room. They have been outside at car dealerships and in Motel banquet halls and conference centers. They have been worked every possible way by promoters to bring them to respectability yet always a media report and it was floundering again.
I have really found no way of making Armwrestling into an income unless I just wanted to jump on the promoter train and call it a business. Therefore I am forced to agree it is a hobby sport. It is kind of like a boat. You know as everyone does that BOAT stands for Break Out Another Thousand. I have one of those too and it is the same because I really don't possess the capital to drop three to five grand on a weekend to compete at that and especially after I go through the break out another thousand every month to have it. It is a hobby as well. I did it for a living until once again the bigger fish saw it was a wallet they could tap. The government spends all of its time looking for the cash cow and they have destroyed fishing in Florida this same way. The once great fishing village of Destin is nothing more than a huge place for insurance companies to keep their boats. They got them by charging the real fishermen to insure their boats and then after they still couldn't catch a fish even if it came up and bit them on the butt , they lobbied to change laws to drive out the working man who made something from it and those guys are mostly dead now. I survived by switching my line of work when it reared its ugly head ....... The profiteers and leeches of society. It is funny to me because being a bail bondsman at first the enforcement agencies that survive from our taxes all tried to consider me as a leech and then they discovered that the industry I was in was helping people. They never bought in to the idea until they tried to take it over just as they have tried to do everything of worth that has surfaced since Ronald Reagan was president. I owe that invasive act which I fight on a daily basis to Janet Reno. Here is some history for you. She approached the bail agents of Florida and wanted her palm greased. We did not make that much money and when none of us could produce she tried to sunset our industry. She is responsible for the HRS = Home recking service and the states attempt at taking over the industry which she called Pretrial release. Look at the amount you pay on your property tax for the section called fines and forfeitures. That is where they charge the taxpayers for the people they lose through pretrial services and have to sustain the records per a grant writing policy that was signed with the federal government in order to get a mere 300 grand per county that would do it. The money was gone the first year and in most counties it runs around 2 or 3 million a year now. When it started the little section in the property taxes was about 15 dollars a year and now it is well over 100 per household.
Ok so a little rant off the beaten path. back on point. If you are not making anything to compensate your spending in a sport then it is a hobby. I am sure I am not good enough to be maybe ten people that we have that have moved above that making some money here and there and the other two who actually moved to figures they could pay their bills on. Then there are promoters who are making a meager amount who have been the only people in power to do more with this sport to get it above Hobby level. They have done what they could and I guess they will continue yet here we are almost 30 years later and nothing yet. Canada is holding the worlds this year and trying to televise it on a sat channel to spread it out. Are you going? I practically did a felony to get a ticket although I have always been lucky and someone donated to help me. I have responsibilities that are not hobbies that come before this Hobby of mine yet I found a way.
I wish you luck in doing what hundreds have not been able to accomplish but maybe you will prosper from the support and all they have done and continue to do to bring it into elite status among the world venues.
Oh I would like to add that every year I rank a newspaper article where I go to a school for a thing they call mid-evil day . This is where they bring back sports of all kinds from the past and the kids compete under supervision for a day. The newspaper shows up and picks from the list of sports and I have consistently year after year made the photo with the kids because they line up like they are going to a movie yet the school system is not ready to try and bring the sport into the list due to the dangers of injury regardless of trained professionals there to show them and stop the match if they twist or turn the wrong way.
I will close with a conclusion and a bit of a rebuttal. It is not my fault the dangers and failings of a sport that finds many people walking away from it because of pain. It is not any of our faults that we were upstaged by a sport with 24 million to invest from backers called the UFC. They are even amidst reforms but teeth still fly and stitches are still required. The majority of todays kids believe just as kids in the past who wanted to be rockstars believed that they could be the one only to find out there were vast amounts of people who would sacrifice anything to win. such is sport and it will always be that way.
In the beginning Olympic sport was all about finding the best combat talent they could for their armies. the sports that followed were javelin, discus, etc. but all combat related. The only other deciding factor with the corrupt is money. Money in sales by large corporations of badminton nets, ping pong balls, special gloves, winter wear of all kinds..........
Here is an observance . Do you think that taekwondo risks being taken off the list because the Cuban kid kicked the ref in the head? It goes much deeper than that but even the cheapest thing the sport sells which is a wooden dowel they call a staff is quite pricey. they had infighting and multiple organizational feuding bringing them to the brink of gang wars reference karate kid the movie. Xtreme sports had two of its medalist at the last winter Olympics that tested positive for cannabis and did not get their medals stripped... It is only obvious why and that is once again the big $ sign. Please don't shoot the messenger . I hear you saying definitely not a hobby but I don't see anything really happening. I still support and do what I can and have for over half my life but I do not expect it to change at least until a network or some large corporate angle brings it in the open. Maybe by the present effort in another 30 years the sport will become a draw and find notoriety. I do not like it but it is what it is.

[Leonard Harkless]

Sept 18, 2008 5:04:35 GMT -5 Chris Ceci said:

"a mere idea and a positive word is going to get any of us in this sport to the Olympic playground. Apparently you missed the point".

James, nice to meet you. Read a lot about you over the years. I never said a mere idea or a positive word would get us in. Pipe Dreams?? Is that what it is to you? Well if thats what a World Champion feels, I'm not sure what to say. Thanks for your explanation of The Olympic Commitee. But your missing the point, This is not a hobby sport, not to me. Maybe to you, but not to me, and a lot of other Arm Wrestlers. I also commended her (Karen)for all she has done with the sport, guess you missed that. No I haven't walked a mile in her Arm Wrestling shoes. But the statements that were made don't sound positive, especially when I here the word NEVER. In my world Arm Wrestling, Olympics,and the word "Never",dont mix.

I agree that a defeatist attitude helps no one and shouldn't be celebrated. I do agree somewhat with James on the problems with the IOC and we would never get "in" through them.
I have not given up hope for FILA and if our Executive board of WAF would get on the ball we still can get in that way.
I also share your opinion that armwrestling is a sport and not a hobby. To some it may have become a hobby and you can see their performance (or not competing anymore) reflected in that.
Anyway keep promoting armwrestling.
Your challenge is to further armwrestling in your corner of the country.

[Anne Melin]

I wonder what makes people to disrespect the SPORT they love(?)!!! For me, too, armwrestling is more than a hobby. I don't rank different sports depending on how much money the competitors are getting out of it. For example, there are SO MANY olympic athletes in my country, who are doing something else for living. Armwrestling is US, the ARMWRESTLERS, and the public image of the sport depends only, ONLY on what we make out of it. I'm still young and not giving up on this. From where I'm standing I can only see things getting bigger and better. Of course, I have no idea what's going on over there, but there are other armwrestling countries apart from the USA, in wich people consider this as a real sport. Pretty many actually.

Collecting stamps is a hobby. Do you see stamp collectors coming together from all over the world to see who's the best? I wouldn't be going to Kanada, pay 900 euros just for the flights there and back, travelling 22 hours one way, just to "meet others with the same hobby".

[chrislydman]

We're mixing apples and oranges, here, folks......James,

[James Battles]

We will see when I get to Canada if my saying that it is a sport hobby affects my performance. I think you are confusing passion with reality. A hobby sport is something where you put more into it than you get out of it. I am not a promoter of tournaments however I promote the sport and have for 30 years. I simply stated what I have seen in this time period and brought the reality of what I have viewed. If I win a lottery and have an extra 10 million laying around I will show everyone just how quick we could be in the Olympics. I don't know with that little bit of cash that I would take the inroad directly to IOC because it would not be anything other than fleeting ie. the continued royalties they expect. The FILA is the way to go as per previous investigations by Engin. 10 mil would go alot further with them lobbying on our side.
As I said before to me a hobby sport is something that bares no disrespect. I do not make a 6 figure income from it . heck I haven't topped 3 figures. I have however poured somewhere into the area of at least a cool 100,000 USD competing if not quite a bit more. My trip to qualify for the nationals was only about 1000 USD. in 30 years I have spent as high as 5grand seven times. yearly average I have spent at least 2000 usd a year on in country events and maybe as high as 5000 so let us split it and say 2500 average and that includes the years I spent 3500 to 5000 on worlds. hmmmmm yeah that is about 100 grand and I have made less than 5grand back. Does that make me a bad armwrestler. does that make me disrespectful by saying it is a hobby. Hobby or not it has nothing to do with my performance and all that kind of talk does for me is assure that I won't hold back or be so kind when I compete.
Anne I think you will discover you are not the only one with passion. I have made flights that were 38 hours and not just a few times. I have some allergies and practically had to be sedated when some woman wore something as cologne that literally destroyed me on a flight from Italy. Cleve Dean will verify and was sitting right behind me. I have endured stomach problems in Egypt and India both. would I do it again . Hell Yes! Am I bringing my A game to Canada which btw my ticket was only worth 900 USD this time. I got a cheap in continent flight. Wait and see if it is an A game. I am thrilled there will be a world turnout.
I avoided the Hurricane this year but have lived through and competed around so many in the past I only remember the ones with winds over 120 mph . I went to Brazil in 2004 only 2 days after being without power at my home for 12 days in a row after a major Hurricane hit my area dead on. Does this change the fact that it is only a hobby because no one has offered me a spot on some reality TV show and used it to make me a celebrity. No I cannot say that it does. I also competed in Atlanta at the Show of Strength 7 days before I left for Brazil and I guess I did get one night in a motel which was better than the devastation I had at my home. I am sorry if there is some misunderstanding but I have the miles to prove my worthiness . I will be at the weigh ins to formally apologize if you wish. Sorry

[Pete & Tim]

People, yes Armwrestling is a sport. We participate in this sport. It is referred to as a hobby based on the fact that 99% of us do not make a living off of it and the most we do is meet each other on weekends to compete against each other for no monetary gain other than another trophy to add to the ever growing collection that most of us are sick of dusting off and looking at.

Sounds like a hobby to me.

And James, you're right. The only part of this sport that produces any kind of return is promotion and that is the business end of it that many choose not to do like yourself.

Still sounds like a hobby.

Other people coordinate a weekend activity so that people can come and compete against one another to see who is the best that day.

Does Softball come to mind when I say this?

It does for me. And to many that is a HOBBY!!!!

UGH!!!!

Why do I bother?

I'm sure some Arm TV fan or newbie to the sport is gonna come on here and argue with me about their love for the sport and how they take it so serious.

I'm outta here!!!!

[Pete & Tim]

James Battles, please stop with the NOVEL LENGTH POSTS!!!!

I hate reading. ;D

[James Battles]

Thank You karen. whew
I love armwrestling . would I still be here after 30 years if I didnt? It is a sport I chose when I could have done many other things. I fished competativley in marlin tournaments. I surfed for 10 years and in contests and won a few. I chose armwrestling because I loved it and still do. It is a sport. It is organized. It has yet to be at a professional level to make it a household word. Oh but it is a household word . My mistake. There is definitley something holding it back but I dont think lack of people knowing about it or efforts made by its sportsman have any control over that. Karen said Marketability. could that be true? sorry for the sarcasm. I don't intend to stop and I can assure all that they should just look at me however but when the man says go buckle up. I have work to do and I have tried my best to explain. I am done now.
end/

[chrislydman]

Sept 18, 2008 11:26:34 GMT -5 James Battles said:

Thank You karen. whew
I love armwrestling . would I still be here after 30 years if I didnt? It is a sport I chose when I could have done many other things. I fished competativley in marlin tournaments. I surfed for 10 years and in contests and won a few. I chose armwrestling because I loved it and still do. It is a sport. It is organized. It has yet to be at a professional level to make it a household word. Oh but it is a household word . My mistake. There is definitley something holding it back but I dont think lack of people knowing about it or efforts made by its sportsman have any control over that. Karen said Marketability. could that be true? sorry for the sarcasm. I don't intend to stop and I can assure all that they should just look at me however but when the man says go buckle up. I have work to do and I have tried my best to explain. I am done now.
end/

[Stephen Pickron "Pic"]

Armwrestling might be a hobby to most people but tomost of them people it is a hobby they love to do..............................Pete why do you have to be so negative all the time

[Pete & Tim]

Why is the truth always referred to as being negative?