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Post by Jake Smith on Oct 21, 2008 15:11:00 GMT -5
out of respect for you and your opinion mr collins i will agree with you. My intentions were to pull at a local event not really caring about a title just to grip up with some big meaty hands. I can see how frustrating that could possibly be.
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Post by jonathanvazquez on Oct 21, 2008 20:03:10 GMT -5
I could not agree more!! But Luke is a great guy and wouldn't pull his weight class(154), so his moving up 2 classes. Jake, that sounds like a good idea, i'll metion it to Luke as we drive down tonight, see you tomorrow!! No doubt Jake and Luke are great pullers but don't belong in this event, no disrespect..I sent two guys down (260 miles) and having pros in their class was a kick in their ####, regardless if the pros go up a class...It would be no difference if I pulled up a class of course my pride wouldn't allow that.... The integrity of this event is not as advertised (AMATEUR) and discouraged more than one person....I'd suggest that the organizer quit discouraging the upcoming pullers and let the pro set this one out.. EXACTLY WHY NONE OF US FROM NEVADA CAME!!!!!
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Post by jonathanvazquez on Oct 21, 2008 20:04:49 GMT -5
great post i agree. However... if i was an amature heavy or superheavy i would be licking my chops at an oppurtunity to spank a pro who thought he could give up 150 to 200 lbs and still compete. i did compete not to win a trophy but to treat it like more tournament table time and experience. There were no pros there pretending to be amatures. the few pros that were there pulled multiple classes and pulled up atleast 3 weight classes. Jake the ripper!! Your correct if "you" were a heavy weight (licking chops) than again the heavy weight may not agree..when a person flys, drives, diets & trains to an titled named (amateur) event and the promoter lets pro-enter, that event lost it's integrity and will decline in prospects... These events are the starting block to the next level and an heavy weight class is quite different than a designate weight class such as 176-198, now were talking about a very close spread... I grant you some will agree with you (pulling up a class) but I disagree...to make thing interesting a side bar pull off with a pro is more entertaining than a pro taking a title from the up and coming... EXACTLY!
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Post by Bill Collins on Oct 21, 2008 20:15:11 GMT -5
out of respect for you and your opinion mr collins i will agree with you. My intentions were to pull at a local event not really caring about a title just to grip up with some big meaty hands. I can see how frustrating that could possibly be. Thanks for understanding, hell I should of came down so you can grab ahold of something you can't go of ha ;D
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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 21, 2008 20:42:45 GMT -5
the armwrestling community has a lack of clearly defined rules for what defines an amateur.
Randy Sampias, has defined his rules for an amateur as relating to class and money only
In this event, as I understood, the pro status only relates to if you have received money in "that" class.
what is a pro, seems very grey, from my point of view. This is exactly the reason I wanted to offer medal class only without giving it a distinction. What exactly is a pro?
I don't think it is fair to trash a tournament in a sport that has different sets of rules and guidelines for what makes an amateur or pro.
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Post by Steve Inzalaco on Oct 21, 2008 21:31:00 GMT -5
Mr. Bill Collins Great Post!....However I do remember Reno Reunion.....(you were the promoter right?) A few years back, Kenny Hughes entered an Amateur class as well as the Pro Classes..........I Love ya Bill...not trying to put you in the spot......but.......Kenny Did enter the Supers........kinda like Jake....even I did a class above....(not that it makes a difference).........I think we just want to pull....its a glorified practice for some, perhaps we should not receive a place in the divisions... ..Dunno Just my thoughts.... Steve
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Post by Bill Collins on Oct 21, 2008 21:37:27 GMT -5
the armwrestling community has a lack of clearly defined rules for what defines an amateur. Randy Sampias, has defined his rules for an amateur as relating to class and money only In this event, as I understood, the pro status only relates to if you have received money in "that" class. what is a pro, seems very grey, from my point of view. This is exactly the reason I wanted to offer medal class only without giving it a distinction. What exactly is a pro? I don't think it is fair to trash a tournament in a sport that has different sets of rules and guidelines for what makes an amateur or pro. Steve, I could have a brain fart but Kenny entering an amateur class, humm if your correct my bad was the event advertised as a Amateur Reno Reunion (no) I understand a glorified practice, but more importantly it's a title for most, perhaps a side bar practice would of been more rewarding. Gary So it's fair if Allen or myself goes to this event and pulls in an upper class, NOT!!! If it's advertised as an Amateur than open to people that won money (quote pro or what ever you want to call them) it WILL take away the integrity, if you see it differently than it's a clash of the minds....everyone is entilted to an opionion...
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Post by Justin Green on Oct 21, 2008 21:40:00 GMT -5
Amature..... First tourney or not winning any tourney's Open..... A seasoned armwrestler winning 2 1st places in tourney's Pro..... It's all about the cash!!!! JMO
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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 21, 2008 22:06:26 GMT -5
I have spoken to Randy on the phone and he let me know that before he took the event over from, near death, they were stringent on the qualifications for amateur back then and there wasn't enough pullers to fill classes.
so where I do see your point with allen, at the same time, are there enough pullers to support a "true" amateur only event. and then...what defines...a pro?
I think this brings up a good debate, one that we can learn from.
I was just emailed the results, will post
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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 21, 2008 22:07:26 GMT -5
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * R E S U L T S * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 2008 31st Annual World Amateur Arm Wrestling Championships Held: Oct 19, 2008 Place: Buena Park, CA Host/MC: Randy Sampias Scorekeeper: Cay Sampias Referees: Bob Easor, Harold Ryden Sponsored by: Buena Park Noon Lions Club This was probably one of the absolute best tournaments of the year! A great field of competitors! Perfect weather! Record attendance! Some of the best matches ever! A definate must see on ARM TV! We saw several competitors stepping up in weight class to demonstrate they had the Right Stuff! congrats to Jake Smith, Luke Kindt, Chase Nankivell. Hats off to Phoenis Arms, these guys showed up in strength! A bunch of them all piled in a VW bus with no air conditioning and drove from Arizona! Then they had a mechanical break down and hitch hiked the rest of the way in! Right Hand Bantam 154 - Under 1st Alex Borshch, AZ / Russia 2nd Rocky Fredin, Vist, CA 3rd Jonny Sarhanis, Cape Cod, MA Left Hand Bantam 154 - Under 1st Victor Torres, Elk Grove, CA 2nd Alex Borshch, AZ / Russia 3rd Kevin Polacek, Alta Loma, CA
Right Hand Light 155 - 176 1st Russell Jodrey, Miranda, CA 2nd Jamie Sheldon, Riverside, CA 3rd Michael Hendricks, San Jose, CA Left Hand Light 155 - 176 1st Russell Jodrey, Miranda, CA 2nd Mike Cocchi, San Jose, CA 3rd Lanny Julian, Florence KY
Right Hand Middle 177 - 198 1st Chase Nankivell, Wrightwood, CA 2nd Michael Vaz, Los Banos, CA 3rd Luke Kindt, Novato, Ca Left Hand Middle 177 - 198 1st Dave Hall, Moreno Valley, CA 2nd Jake Smith, Oceanside, CA 3rd Michael Vaz, Los Banos, CA
Right Hand Light Heavy 199-220 1st Chris Luettgerodt, Upland, CA 2nd Scott Partington, Anaheim, CA 3rd Lynn Brower, Hawthorne, CA Left Hand Light Heavy 199-220 1st Scott Partington, Anaheim, CA 2nd Joe Ontiveros, Highland, CA 3rd Chase Nankivell, Wrightwood, CA
Right Hand Heavy 221 - 242 1st Luke Kindt, Novato, CA 2nd Robert Misson, Avondale, AZ 3rd Alberto Viramontez, Little Rock, CA
left Hand Heavy 221 - 242 1st Jake Smith, Oceanside, CA 2nd Valenitini Aholelei, La Verne, CA
Right Hand Super HVY 243 - up 1st Bruce Way, San Marcos, CA 2nd Jeff Hodgkinson, Mesa, AZ 3rd Shane Wynglarz, Buena Park, CA
Left Hand Super HVY 243 - up 1st John Bergstrom, Chandler, AZ 2nd Jake Smith, Oceanside, CA 3rd Bruce Way, San Marcos, CA Womens Right Hand Open 1st Joanne Bailey, Rosamond, CA 2nd Tammy Mann, Oceanside, CA 3rd Brie Way, San Marcos, CA Team Competition 1st Psyco Arms Scott Partington Chase Nankivelle Richard Smith Jason Sandhofner
2nd Phoenix Arms Red John Bergstrom Mike Mancuso Alex Borshch Jeremiah Bellis
Thank you to our referees for a good safe tournament! Thanks to Gary Roberts and ARM TV for really helping promote our sport! Thank you to USA and WAF for your continued support and recognition! A big Thank You to BUENA PARK NOON LIONS CLUB for 31 years of sponsorship! Hope to see you all again next year! Yours in Arm Wrestling Randy Sampias
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Oct 21, 2008 22:09:29 GMT -5
I agree with a few on this.............. I feel that I have surpassed the amatuer ranks, do I consider myself "Pro" not yet. That being said I wouldn't think of competing at this event. I think it should be something that a newer puller could train for, not go to and get beat down by guys that don't place at big events or pros pulling up classes. For the record I still get beat by the "Pros" but I will keep training until I get there, with out beating on the new guys!!! (this was not aimed at anyone, so hopefully no one takes it to heart)
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Post by Mike Moeller on Oct 21, 2008 22:57:53 GMT -5
Another way to look at this is that maybe the amatuers really liked the fact that Jake and Luke came to the event. The only way to understand how a pro pulls is to pull one (safely) and knowing these guys I am sure they were beneficial in showing these guys different ways to improve their game and not to hurt anyone. heck Jake trains with the best training partner on the planet (fisher) so who wouldnt want to pick his brain for tips! I know I would.
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Post by Willie Reagan on Oct 21, 2008 23:41:55 GMT -5
Lol- amateur means amateur! Thats why this tourney is dying! They let anyone pull! If a National Champion wants to pull there, then they have no heart! Let the competitors that are up and coming pull this event. By the way Allen Fisher is awesome, but he is not the best! No offense to you Allen! John is the best training partner there is!!!!!
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Post by Jake Smith on Oct 22, 2008 0:11:50 GMT -5
John maybe the best of all time that doesnt make him the best training partner. What makes allen the best is his ability to break everything down and analyze every angle and feel all the pressures and provide feedback to his partners. Saying a pro has no heart for pulling an "amature" tournament is pretty lame if you ask me. It has nothing to do with heart. Everybody assumes these "amatures" are young up and comers when most of them have been armwrestling for 10 years, 20 years or more. Alot of them can go to open tournaments and place. They are the career "amatures". I dont feel bad at all for pulling. I had a great time and had a great workout. I do have a better understanding of how some people view this but lets keep it under control and not get stupid by saying some of us pros dont have hearts
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Post by Mike Cocchi on Oct 22, 2008 0:26:01 GMT -5
Very well put Jake. Jake is also right, that was no amature event. There was lots of talent there. If you ask me, I think this was a even playing field. But thats just my opion. Great Job ARMTV!!!!!YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
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