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Post by Todd Smiley on Oct 24, 2008 12:55:18 GMT -5
Do both competitors HAVE to show their thumb knuckle or can you cover your own thumb if your opponent can still see theirs?
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Post by James Battles on Oct 24, 2008 13:08:50 GMT -5
I almost got fouled at the nationals because someone covered their own thumb knuckle. You might have to get the ref to uncover them for a minute so he will see it is not you doing it. I had a difficult time though and had to completely let my hand go limp to get the match started. I had one ref shaking his head because he could see it was not me and the other one jacking me up . I don't formally know either one of the refs so I really just had to let it take its course until someone could clear it up. The answer I guess would be no but the ref might ask for them to lift up so he can see it better and make sure no one is sliding to high on the others knuckle. In my case I could not go any lower on my opponents hand without breaking something on it. I guess it was just a misunderstanding.
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Post by Keith Michel on Oct 24, 2008 18:05:17 GMT -5
I almost got fouled at the nationals because someone covered their own thumb knuckle. You might have to get the ref to uncover them for a minute so he will see it is not you doing it. I had a difficult time though and had to completely let my hand go limp to get the match started. I had one ref shaking his head because he could see it was not me and the other one jacking me up . I don't formally know either one of the refs so I really just had to let it take its course until someone could clear it up. The answer I guess would be no but the ref might ask for them to lift up so he can see it better and make sure no one is sliding to high on the others knuckle. In my case I could not go any lower on my opponents hand without breaking something on it. I guess it was just a misunderstanding. Mr. Battles At that time I would of backed off and got ruling from the foreman Referee. If at any time you are unclear about a rule. Get it straighten out before the go is given. Coulda, woulda shoulda. Keith |
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Post by Bob Brown on Oct 24, 2008 23:18:07 GMT -5
ITEM 4
The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible. Gripped hands should be level on a plain at the forefingers. Free hand will grip the hand peg provided at the table edge. This arm may or may not touch the table top. Finger nails should be trimmed so as not to injure your opponent. Stickum/rosin/chalk are permitted.
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Post by James Battles on Oct 25, 2008 0:12:41 GMT -5
ITEM 4 The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible. Gripped hands should be level on a plain at the forefingers. Free hand will grip the hand peg provided at the table edge. This arm may or may not touch the table top. Finger nails should be trimmed so as not to injure your opponent. Stickum/rosin/chalk are permitted. well I guess I can understand why the ref was getting pissed. The problem was that I had lowered my grip so low trying to appease him until I was almost a half inch under my opponents lowest thumb knuckle. Your right Keith it was confusing me as to what he wanted. The other ref was shaking his head but said nothing. I really don't know what happened except I was being blamed for it so finally I completely loosened my hand to a limp state. That seemed to be what the ref wanted because he started the match pretty fast when I did. I didn't really understand it and basically had to catch the guy and reverse his direction of travel. Thanks Bob I do remember that the knuckles had to be visible . I was thinking about if it was someone covering their own thumb knuckle so could not recall if it was allowed. I could not see to break through the confusion that it was not my index finger over the guys thumb. So you say I should step back and have like the head ref come in? I didn't know what to do and since it was my very first match I did not want it to go badly but I couldn't do anything about someone else's finger lol. Thanks as well |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Oct 25, 2008 10:23:50 GMT -5
ITEM 4 The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible. Gripped hands should be level on a plain at the forefingers. Free hand will grip the hand peg provided at the table edge. This arm may or may not touch the table top. Finger nails should be trimmed so as not to injure your opponent. Stickum/rosin/chalk are permitted. well I guess I can understand why the ref was getting pissed. The problem was that I had lowered my grip so low trying to appease him until I was almost a half inch under my opponents lowest thumb knuckle. Your right Keith it was confusing me as to what he wanted. The other ref was shaking his head but said nothing. I really don't know what happened except I was being blamed for it so finally I completely loosened my hand to a limp state. That seemed to be what the ref wanted because he started the match pretty fast when I did. I didn't really understand it and basically had to catch the guy and reverse his direction of travel. Thanks Bob I do remember that the knuckles had to be visible . I was thinking about if it was someone covering their own thumb knuckle so could not recall if it was allowed. I could not see to break through the confusion that it was not my index finger over the guys thumb. So you say I should step back and have like the head ref come in? I didn't know what to do and since it was my very first match I did not want it to go badly but I couldn't do anything about someone else's finger lol. Thanks as well As a competitor I would have released the grip went to the chalk stand and came back with a lower palm grip, still with my wrist cocked back. I would not want to start a match with my hand turned down. Was the referee directly asking you to show the knuckles or just giving the command without directing you personally? It is always a interesting situation about just how much needs to be shown and from whose perception is the determination. The one wanting the knuckles shown and demanding it is always wanting the entire knuckle shown and the opponent is wanting something less. I do not demand the entire knuckle but it needs to be there also. Extremes are almost always not a good thing. I will go back to the tape and see if anything can be seen from it. Sometimes tape can be a good learning tool. |
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Post by James Battles on Oct 25, 2008 13:01:31 GMT -5
thanks Leonard
I was confused by what he wanted . I looked down and I really couldnt go any lower and the guy I was pulling could see it as well. probably this much distance from the top of my index and the bottom knuckle line on his thumb |--| .
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Oct 26, 2008 9:25:21 GMT -5
thanks Leonard I was confused by what he wanted . I looked down and I really couldnt go any lower and the guy I was pulling could see it as well. probably this much distance from the top of my index and the bottom knuckle line on his thumb |--| . That would have been plenty low enough. |
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Post by Todd Smiley on Oct 27, 2008 11:47:21 GMT -5
ITEM 4 The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible. Thumb Knuckle? Yours or your competitors? Should it be revised so it is clear? Maybe read BOTH competitors thumb knuckle must show.. So this means No matter if you want yours covered or if your competitor doesnt care the ref should make you or your competitor uncover the knuckle of both participants? |
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Oct 27, 2008 20:48:12 GMT -5
ITEM 4 The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible. Thumb Knuckle? Yours or your competitors? Should it be revised so it is clear? Maybe read BOTH competitors thumb knuckle must show.. So this means No matter if you want yours covered or if your competitor doesnt care the ref should make you or your competitor uncover the knuckle of both participants? That is right, the referee is not suppose to give options. Remember the rules have to take in account many different languages. I may be easy for us in english to ask those questions and get answers and another thing to do so with a competitor from Asia or Europe who only understands the 20 or so mandatory words without putting them into a sentence. So the knuckles need to be shown. LH |
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Post by Todd Smiley on Oct 27, 2008 23:53:21 GMT -5
thanks, Definatly need to make sure the refs are all calling it the same, because some are not so strict and this can give an advantage..
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