|
|
Post by Anthony Edens on Sept 7, 2010 7:48:51 GMT -5
I would like to know what the referees are responsible for during the setup. I know that your hands should be in the center of the table (between the elbow pads and pin pads). I know the shoulders can't be turned in and the thumb knuckle is supposed to show.
The reason I ask this is because for the first time ever, I had a referee say "let's get rid of that space" and proceeded to push our palms together, which essentially eliminated any chance I had of winning the match.
Is this something that referees are always supposed to do, or was this particular referee in the wrong?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bill Collins on Sept 7, 2010 11:45:38 GMT -5
I would like to know what the referees are responsible for during the setup. I know that your hands should be in the center of the table (between the elbow pads and pin pads). I know the shoulders can't be turned in and the thumb knuckle is supposed to show. The reason I ask this is because for the first time ever, I had a referee say "let's get rid of that space" and proceeded to push our palms together, which essentially eliminated any chance I had of winning the match. Is this something that referees are always supposed to do, or was this particular referee in the wrong? USA biggest problem is not using a standard set of rules, so pending prevails. For the most part: WAF style...one word commands.... Grip Shoulders Knuckles Wrest Center What space is the refereeing talking about? You not closing your hand to get a grip? As long as the wrest is straight (not bent) and your finger are closes, not much of a space.. |
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 7, 2010 14:06:44 GMT -5
Sounds to me like the ref is coaching at the table.
The ref should not do or say anything to increase or decrease either competitors performance.
From what I gather I assume he was referring to the gap under your pinkie and ring finger.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Edens on Sept 7, 2010 14:52:59 GMT -5
The only space I knew about was the space between our palms. Sometimes when my opponent wants to go outside with me he will try to attack my fingers as well, which leaves a little bit of space between our palms. I felt really good in the setup and just before ready...go, the referee said "here, let's get rid of that space" while pushing our palms together which almost bent my wrist back and then gave the ready-go command.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Brown on Sept 7, 2010 15:38:34 GMT -5
I don't know what rules were at your event but These are the WAF rules about set-up
ITEM 3 – SETTING UP / START OF THE MATCH
a) The grip is palm to palm, grip at thumb, thumb knuckle must be visible.
b) Gripped hands should be level.
c) Back pressure to the extent that it pulls your opponents arm across the marked center of the table will not be allowed
d) Wrists straight and hands centered to the table top.
e) Free hand will grip the hand peg, above the table, provided at the table edge. This arm may or may not touch the table top.
f) Finger nails should be trimmed so as not to injure your opponent
g) Stickum/Rosin/Chalk is permitted
I guess someone could argue the "a) Palm to palm" means Palms must actually be touching.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 7, 2010 17:58:31 GMT -5
True....I guess
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wilson on Sept 7, 2010 18:43:33 GMT -5
You mean like somebody who has never actually armwrestled before?
I say give the ref the benefit of the doubt that he thought he saw something. How would anyone see a pocket between your palms?
|
|
|
|
Post by Florian Kellersmann on Sept 8, 2010 2:27:14 GMT -5
b) Gripped hands should be level. Hi Bob, could you explain this more for me? Does this mean, 2nd index finger knuckle, usually the highest point, of both hands should be at one level? What, if someone grips low? Does his opponent then have to lower his front wrist to come to the same level? Thank you! |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Brown on Sept 8, 2010 9:22:05 GMT -5
This is another example of the problems with the rules as written. Just as the "Palm to Palm" has no interpretation with it, neither does the "Level". I have discussed the "Level" rule with Leonard and we both agreed that this is impossible to regulate I think it should be removed. As it is written, you are correct that the knuckles would have to be level and many of the grips that are done would be against the rules. Such as low gripping or a High post top roll. But we all know these grip are always allowed. Even in a Refs grip, the ref will ask you if you want to wrap a thumb, grip high or low. So this rule is never followed and should be removed.
As to the "Palm to Palm" rule. In 25 years of pulling under many different rules and countries, I have never seen a ref press the palms of the 2 pullers together so there is no air space between the palms. IMO the "Palm to Palm, Grip at thumb" rule simply describes the basic grip is at the Palms. Vs the old styles of AW which sometimes locked at the wrist without gripping hands at all, in a "hook like" position or grabbing at the hands without gripping the thumb (this used to be called "Indian AW"
|
|
|
|
Post by Hungry Hippo on Sept 8, 2010 10:56:30 GMT -5
The ref was coaching too much. I was there, and before one of my matches while we were setting up he said " If you try to do a press, this guy's gonna hurt ya". I guess he was pals with my opponent. Very unprofessional.
|
|
|
|
Post by Florian Kellersmann on Sept 8, 2010 11:17:31 GMT -5
Thank you very much for your answer, Bob!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 8, 2010 17:13:52 GMT -5
The ref was coaching too much. I was there, and before one of my matches while we were setting up he said " If you try to do a press, this guy's gonna hurt ya". I guess he was pals with my opponent. Very unprofessional. I agree, very unprofessional. I hate to see that. |
|
|
|
Post by Mike West on Sept 8, 2010 21:49:45 GMT -5
The ref was coaching too much. I was there, and before one of my matches while we were setting up he said " If you try to do a press, this guy's gonna hurt ya". I guess he was pals with my opponent. Very unprofessional. Or maybe he was trying to keep you from getting hurt, especially if it was against Doug. |
|
|
|
Post by John Wilson on Sept 11, 2010 11:48:04 GMT -5
It's not the ref's job to alter the match in any way regardless of good intentions. I can see stopping a novice match, but the ref does not get to steer the match.
|
|
