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Post by Bill Maenza on Jan 20, 2011 18:32:54 GMT -5
Engin, What is your weight in the matches with Zoloev & Janis?
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Post by John Parton on Jan 20, 2011 18:45:47 GMT -5
I think that comparing pullers across generations is a bit unfair. Training technique and tools have improved and with it overall strength. To add to that we have video that aids in studying nuances in pulling technique that were unavailable to Dave. I will say this I had several long matches with Dave (which he won) . He was not only one of the best technical pullers of his day, but one of the best conditioned. IMO he is a person who were he young today would be able to train and compete with anyone. His work ethic and drive were unmatched and men like him brought pulling to the world. Whether he would win against many of the modern greatest will never be known, but this should be, they alll owe him a debt of gratitude for his inspiration and courage to take on all comers JMO
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 20, 2011 18:58:59 GMT -5
Engin, What is your weight in the matches with Zoloev & Janis? when i was younger i had low fat percentage of course and was a bigger 154 pounds compared to the 2005 or 2007 that i pulled Zoloev at 154s (had to diet down from 180 pounds).before my surgery i had bigger arms at 154 than i had at 170s when i pulled Janis in Italy.this is from 2001 WAF at 154; with Zoloev 154 at the weigh in and about 162 at the competetion with near no fat.he also was without fat and HIS RIGHT ARM WAS HUGE; again 154 at the weigh in and a bit over 160 on the competetion day in 2007 WAF where he beat me; against Janis i was 173 pounds with pounds of fat on belly area.
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 20, 2011 19:01:55 GMT -5
btw when i won my last WAF title in Manchester i was 165 pounds at the weigh in and 178 pounds on the competetion day.
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Post by Bill Maenza on Jan 20, 2011 19:21:43 GMT -5
John Parton, Outstanding post - could not agree more on any points. Bill
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Post by Alper Cosar on Jan 21, 2011 0:41:20 GMT -5
Well, I was at the Team N. Virginia training tonight and asked Dave about this Thread (which he never readed) he gave me an interesting answer....check it out!
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Post by tomnelson on Jan 21, 2011 3:34:44 GMT -5
DAVE PATTON put FEAR in the hearts of HEAVY WEIGHTS IN HIS DAY....ROMAN TODAY ISNT FEARED BY ANY TOP HEAVY WEIGHTS....
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Post by tomnelson on Jan 21, 2011 4:56:00 GMT -5
WELL NOT JUST YET
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 21, 2011 5:23:41 GMT -5
trust me,none of Pushkar,Voevoda or Cyplenkov would be scared of any light weight who ever lived..which means lightweights are not the only ones who have progressed in armwrestling
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 21, 2011 6:24:19 GMT -5
do i believe that John in 1985 could do anything against Cyplenkov or Pushkar of today? not at all.. JMO
late 80s and early 90s may have been John's prime but not early 80s.if Dave would have been the only guy to beat John then i could agree.and as far as the Armbender Magazine says Dave who beat John was 7-5 against Jerry Janings who was a 154 pounds guy.do i believe that Jerry was stronger than best of John? no,not even close.
i have beaten Rustam Babayev,he took 3. place after me and since i beat him he has never lost a double elimination event in his weight class.but would it not be silly to claim that i can beat Rustam who just flashed John just because i beat him in the past? yes it would be silly because Rustam that i beat and Rustam who is competing today are in different levels & weight class same as John of early to middle 80s and John of late 80s to early 90s were different.
and also Rustam flashed John but i do not think that he will ever claim to be someone who was stronger than John because he probably knows that John that he faced in 2010 Zloty was not the best of John,not even close.
it is all about intimidation of the moments in our lives.after 1994 WAF i had a table training with a Spanish guy.he toyed with me like a cat playing with a mouse.i was so much intimidated that i was scared when i finally met him in WAF which was 4 years later.it took a long set up because i was not confident but i just destroyed him when the ref finally said go.i did not only pin him but because of my fear i hit so hard that i hit him to the table top.he would stay as an untouchable guy in my head if i had never met him again.
did you guys know that Gashevski beat Voevoda? yes in an actual tournament.was it prime Voevoda? not at all and anyone with a bit sense would even laugh at such a question.so according to the logic that is used in this thread Gashevski beat Voevoda,Voevoda destroyed everyone including John and what now?
also today the matches start in a different way and hard to use skills to unable your opponents before the match even starts.
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Post by Bill Maenza on Jan 21, 2011 6:46:40 GMT -5
He was the best of his day. It is no different comparing Dave to today's elite as it is comparing Ali to today's elite.
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 21, 2011 6:56:07 GMT -5
He was the best of his day. . no doubt about it as he was the light weight who was considered as the best for the longest period of time (early 80s to mid 90s). i am not saying that what i think is the absolute truth but i do not accept anyone else to think that his opinion is the absolute truth either.we are just discussing and i sure consider Dave as one of the best light weights ever. Cobra Rhodes,Dave Patton,Tzvetan Gashevski,Zoloev Hadzimurat are probably the best 165 pounders ever.Arsen stayed at 165 not long enough to be remembered as a lightweight but my money would be on him against any 165 whoever lived.
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Post by Bill Maenza on Jan 21, 2011 7:28:42 GMT -5
(Off topic) Would you put Muhammad Ali up against all the great heavyweights since him?
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Post by Shaun Thomas on Jan 21, 2011 7:59:44 GMT -5
(Off topic) Would you put Muhammad Ali up against all the great heavyweights since him? Aside from prime Mike Tyson yes i think i would anyway. I think a young prime Tyson would have gone through him IMO
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Jan 21, 2011 8:03:27 GMT -5
(Off topic) Would you put Muhammad Ali up against all the great heavyweights since him? I know where you're going I think. Even the great Ali would be too small today to dominate everyone.
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