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Post by Anthony Edens on Jul 27, 2011 10:15:35 GMT -5
Very interesting, different takes by two of the most knowledgeable armwrestlers ever-Neil and Engin. I have always thought that the Brzenk/Voevoda Zloty match was a terrible gauge of how the two would fare against each other because of John's earlier match with Taras Ivakin. John was noticeably worn down by the final match. Engin makes a good point in that Ivakin couldn't even move Voevoda, but gave Brzenk all kinds of trouble that day.
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Post by Bob Brown on Jul 27, 2011 10:18:55 GMT -5
This same day, Anreas Runstram also gave John problems. Normally John would of not felt Andreas. I can tell you as a fact, John was injured before that event.
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 27, 2011 11:20:33 GMT -5
Very interesting, different takes by two of the most knowledgeable armwrestlers ever-Neil and Engin. I have always thought that the Brzenk/Voevoda Zloty match was a terrible gauge of how the two would fare against each other because of John's earlier match with Taras Ivakin. John was noticeably worn down by the final match. Engin makes a good point in that Ivakin couldn't even move Voevoda, but gave Brzenk all kinds of trouble that day. Taras starting from beginning of 2000s was not able to do anything to Alexy.you are right,we can not gauge John vs Alexy with their meet in 2004 Zloty,but on that day John could not have done anything against Alexy even if he was fresh.as i mentioned before that if John had trouble with 83 kg Andras then how could he beat Alexy on that day? sorry but i do not believe that Andras could beat Alexy even if he tried with both hands on that day. my opinion is supported by the words of John who was not sure of beating Alexy even if he gained up to 30 pounds.so it means that he did not think of being capable of beating Alexy on that day.so what can one say more about it? about people not pulling against Voevoda at Zloty 2004..was it to help him or to stay fresh & healthy? of course the second option.people who does not pull Rustam at WAF & EAC,is that because of giving favour to Rustam or because of seing no sense in such try? Voevoda had been dominating this side of the world then and people knew that they had no chance against him.
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Post by Scott Wright on Jul 27, 2011 11:51:55 GMT -5
Great list Engin! I would put Devon at 3 as I think he would still have a good chance of beating the 4 guys above him in the 6 round format. I also think that a top form Alexey would beat most anyone in a tournament format. if we could only see some of these match ups from that list.
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Post by Neil Pickup on Jul 27, 2011 11:55:01 GMT -5
Opinions do and will always vary but being there up close and personal on the day itself and interacting throughout the event provides an enormously different range of perspective than can be ascertained by aftermath conjecture.
Alexey at his prime was without doubt a very Strong individual however was he beatable ? I certainly believe so yes
Cheers
Neil
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Post by Anthony Edens on Jul 27, 2011 12:06:14 GMT -5
So Neil, where would you put the 2004 Voevoda on Engin's list of the 10 best over the last decade? I'm very interested to know. Thanks.
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Post by Florian Kellersmann on Jul 27, 2011 14:28:41 GMT -5
I thinking that if Alexey would train specifically for a 6 round match with Mike he would beat him. I also think he would have a good chance against Devon. Alexey is more a genetic sport freak than Mike and about maximum strength and speed strength also more than Devon I think. He would need enough time for preparation for the match for sure.
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Post by Arturo Garcia on Jul 27, 2011 14:54:59 GMT -5
That's an absolutely awesome Top 10 of the last 10 years list. Thanks for that Engin!!! Bob Brown has just stated John was injured before this event. I have read in the past that he somehow hurt himself trying some 1-arm chin-ups or something. Was this the injury Bob? So John was light (94kg with clothing as per Neil says?), fatigued (wars vs. several people including some who he would not normally have "even felt"), and on top of that, injured??? I guess I have to agree, that one match is not a fair gauge of what the outcome would have been under other circumstances. And this is by no means disrespecting Alexey. But even people who were present (like Neil) are even adding the fact that pullers were laying down for Alexey (no matter what their reasons for this were, Engin, this in the end sure must have helped too, even if the other pullers intentions wasn't to help Alexey but to save themselves from getting spent). Maybe John is too humble to say all this and that's why he never mentioned an excuse. I believe I read John saying that in 2006 he was on a mission to beat Voevoda and that's why he bulked up a bit? Why could noone make it happen!? Dang!
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 27, 2011 17:12:09 GMT -5
I guess I have to agree, that one match is not a fair gauge of what the outcome would have been under other circumstances. And this is by no means disrespecting Alexey. But even people who were present (like Neil) are even adding the fact that pullers were laying down for Alexey (no matter what their reasons for this were, Engin, this in the end sure must have helped too, even if the other pullers intentions wasn't to help Alexey but to save themselves from getting spent). i do not think that Alexy met Travis and Matt after no one else was left.also Alexy to pull Matt and Travis in supers is much more tiring than pulling in 95kg class.i bet Alexy would prefer to pull Andras and Taras instead of Travis and Matt. Alexy would have still beat all even if he pulled even 2 extra more matches than anyone else had.it was obvious to everyone.Travis' performance against Alexy was all about the start intelligence of Travis that he learnt from Dave Patton. Maybe John is too humble to say all this and that's why he never mentioned an excuse. I believe I read John saying that in 2006 he was on a mission to beat Voevoda and that's why he bulked up a bit? Why could noone make it happen!? Dang! as i mentioned before,the question should be if John could beat Alexy in their best shapes,not if John had any chance to beat Alexy on THAT DAY because it was not possible.not long before 2004 Zloty Travis beat John quickly but then lost to Ron and then to John,and Ron beat John in the final.so those days John was not in a good shape because of injuries. Alexy vs John was planned but as far as i remember there was a problem between Igor and Alexy in 2007. opinions can easily be effected by close friendships,business etc type of things and it is very normal.
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Post by rolandkovalenoks on Jul 27, 2011 19:54:19 GMT -5
Im not sure if there has ever been a human being in existence that could have beaten Voevoda that day at Nemiroff. He CRUSHED a top form Travis in the straps, and CRUSHED a healthy (but light) John Brzenk in a hook. Great armwrestlers dont do that. Only one time freaks of nature do. But then again, what do I know lol! Neil I respect your opinion and your efforts promoting this sport, but you should not say; Top Eastern European Pullers laid down for Alexey & HAMMERED into the U.S. Pullers throughout the day! Watching Alexy pulling Pushkar you can tell there is no play. ACTUALLY in truth there is A LOT of myth & legend surrounding what went down at the Zloty Tur. John wasn't in great shape at all he only weighed 94kg WITH JEANS ON and was RUINED by the time he got to Alexey. Plus all the Top Eastern European Pullers laid down for Alexey & HAMMERED into the U.S. Pullers throughout the day. Devon would definately EXPLODE the Myth over Six Rounds right now. As would THE CURRENT ALL NEW "MONSTER MIKE", Andre Pushkar in current Top Shape & also "THE GINGERDRED MAN". Also for info, the John Brzenk that Devon was able to defeat over Six at ARM WARS "DEEP WATER" was ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT QUESTION far stronger than the battered version that Alexey pulled in 2004. The John that pulled Ultimate Vegas in 2006 would have HANDEDLY levelled the Score Vs. Alexey.........maybe Vs. Devon too although the later would be FAR TOUGHER over Six Rounds. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE !!! I commentated all day & I reffed the match between John & Alexey. John was SMOKED at that point & out of the strap he didn't handle Travis as easily as many people seem to think. Devon is not a normal man he is a FREAK, the Man doesn't get tired like a normal man, he is Strong in ALL positions and has the weapons to counter almost every style. I genuinely believe that time may prove that Devon Larratt is the most complete Super-Heavyweight in the History of the Sport, we will see Cheers Neil Neil I respect your opinion and your efforts promoting this sport, but you should not say; Top Eastern European Pullers laid down for Alexey & HAMMERED into the U.S. Pullers throughout the day! Watching Alexy pulling Pushkar you can tell there is no play.
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Post by Hungry Hippo on Jul 27, 2011 21:40:01 GMT -5
I think this matchup would be the best in the sports history...and I'd say Alexey would take 6-0
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Post by Jacob Hale on Jul 27, 2011 23:37:41 GMT -5
come on guys respect to Alexy.. John was smoked before he met Alexy? yes he was but who tired John? Taras Ivakin who could not even move Alexy and i guess this answers the question about if John was fresh etc speculation.John was not in a great shape and he had hard time with Andras as well. this is what John wrote after he faced Alexy; " As far as what I need to do to chase Alexey ….10 lbs 20 lbs 30 lbs….? Yes this would help. But mainly I need to get out of the Gym …and back on the arm wrestling table. Will it be enough for Alexey in the future? I’m not sure especially if he keeps pushing the envelope. Using Big Matt as a gauge ….Alexey looked very, very strong! " but IMO,2006 Vegas version of John would beat any one in any format of armwrestling. Alexy would beat the rest in a tournament format but i do not know about Alexy in 6 rounds as only match i saw him in 6 rounds with right arm was after a long brake for armwrestling,against M.Todd and Alexy did not seem to get any tired even in later rounds.so i believe Alexy vs Devon would be same as Taras vs Alexy as a result.just a bigger & experienced version of Devon vs bigger & higher quality version of Taras (Alexy). if i would do a ranking of last 10 years then it would be; 1- 2006 John 2- 2004 Alexy 3- 2006 Ferit 4- 2011 Pushkar 5- 2011 Devon 6- 2010 Jerry 7- 2006 Travis 8- 2010 Cyplenkov 9- 2011 M.Todd 10-2005 Matt Girdner Wow, awesome list Engin. If you where to do the same thing but do it over the past 40 years instead of 10 years, What would your list look like?
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Post by Josh Handeland on Jul 27, 2011 23:52:42 GMT -5
You have 2011 Pushkar over 2011 Devon... but Devon is ranked over Pushkar on the current (2011) rankings? Is your list the strongest over a single round? Where would you put Lupkes and Randall on that list or how do you think they would do vs Girdner? Thanks for the insight.
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 28, 2011 2:23:47 GMT -5
You have 2011 Pushkar over 2011 Devon... but Devon is ranked over Pushkar on the current (2011) rankings? Is your list the strongest over a single round? Where would you put Lupkes and Randall on that list or how do you think they would do vs Girdner? Thanks for the insight. my personal opinion is that Pushkar can beat Devon,but the way that results happenned makes Devon no 1 in the world until its proven otherwise. i believe that Pushkar would beat Devon in a tournament and 3 out of 6 matches,JMO. Josh,maybe you were not deep in armwrestling when Matt was in his best shape but then he was really strong.i would not put them in that top 10 list,that is why i did not.
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Post by Hungry Hippo on Jul 28, 2011 2:27:50 GMT -5
i believe that Pushkar would beat Devon in a tournament and 3 out of 6 matches,JMO. what's your take on Devon and Alexey 6 rounds? thnx
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