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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 13:14:38 GMT -5
Top 10 World, men right 1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Modestas Grigaitis, LTU 4. Ron Bath, USA 5. Don Underwood, USA 6. Yoshinobu Kanai, JPN 7. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 8. Michael Todd, USA 9. Tim Bresnan, USA 10. Richard Lupkes, USA i know it looks ridicilous to see Modestas there but that is how the supermatch results make me think.. open to correction
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Post by kyledarby on Sept 5, 2011 14:29:13 GMT -5
Engin,
If you aren't capable of compiling facts and assembling accurate information who is? I think the ones who will object are the ones that want to put their boys at the top. I say let it ride and change as needed by future results.
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 14:48:13 GMT -5
Kyle,
the facts are not 1 whole thing.i can have my ideas about it which may have some facts in it while it may have some mistakes in it as well.here we try to do what is best all together.but i totally agree with you about not worrying so much and let the future results run the rankings.
thanks for your opinions !
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Post by Joe Rozbora on Sept 5, 2011 14:56:28 GMT -5
Top 10 World, men right 1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Modestas Grigaitis, LTU 4. Ron Bath, USA 5. Don Underwood, USA 6. Yoshinobu Kanai, JPN 7. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 8. Michael Todd, USA 9. Tim Bresnan, USA 10. Richard Lupkes, USA i know it looks ridicilous to see Modestas there but that is how the supermatch results make me think.. open to correction you a right to be wrong sometimes after 11k posts.... ....Im not agree with your ranking'...what is the based from?
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 15:36:39 GMT -5
Top 10 World, men right 1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Modestas Grigaitis, LTU 4. Ron Bath, USA 5. Don Underwood, USA 6. Yoshinobu Kanai, JPN 7. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 8. Michael Todd, USA 9. Tim Bresnan, USA 10. Richard Lupkes, USA i know it looks ridicilous to see Modestas there but that is how the supermatch results make me think.. open to correction you a right to be wrong sometimes after 11k posts.... ....Im not agree with your ranking'...what is the based from? Devon beat all..Jerry beat John and Richard..Modestas beat Don 6-0..Ron beat Don and Richard..Don beat Kanai..Kanai beat M.Todd and tied 3-3 with Ron..Denis lost to John 1-5..M.Todd gave a good match to Devon..and so on.. what is your supermatch ranking opinion and what is it based on?
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Post by Michael Todd on Sept 5, 2011 16:31:00 GMT -5
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but using a match from 2 years ago to determine where somone is today is ridiculous. Speaking of that match I had just pulled Oncescu 3 weeks before and the Unified Nationals 2 weeks before. Also, if you are going to count that match you have to add Ioan Puscasu b/c he beat Don 4-2 that day. If this is a serious ranking I'd rather you just leave my name off b/c I don't feel this is an accurate representation of my current level. No hard feelings & best of luck with the rankings!
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Post by tomaszwisniowski on Sept 5, 2011 17:01:18 GMT -5
IMO RANKING MUST PROMOTE THE ARMWRESTLERS WHO ARE ACTIVE
THE PULLERS SHOULD COLLECT THE POINTS. EVENTS SOULD BE DEVITED FOR THE CLASS ELITE, 1ST, 2ND ETC...
F.E: ELITE CLASS - 100PTS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND. SO IF PULLER WIN 6:0 COLLECT TO THE RANKING 100PTS FOR START IN ELITE EVENT PLUS 60PTS FOR WON ROUNDS - TOGETHER 160 PTS IF DRAW 3:3 - 130 PTS IF LOSE THEN FROM 100 PTS FOR START - 20 PTS FOR LOST MATCH WHICH WILL GIVE HIM 80 PTS TO RANKING ONLY. STILL PROMOTE ACTIVE PULLERS
THIS KIND OF SCORING WILL BE PROMOTE THE SUPERMATCHES WITH THE LARGE NUMBER OF THE ROUNDS WHICH IS 6. SUPERMATCH MUST BE A TEST OF ENDURANCE, STRATEGY ETC... - 2:1 RESULT IS NOT IMO
THEN 1ST CLASS EVENTS 70PTS PLUS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND. 2ND CLASS 50PTS PLUS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND.
THIS KIND OF SCORING WILL BE PROMOTE ACTIVE PULLERS PLUS WILL FORCE ORGANIZERS TO IMPROVE THE LEVEL OF THE EVENT. (MANY, PLACE, ORGANIZATION ETC..)
ONCE A YEAR SHOULD BE DECISION WHICH CLASS IS EVENT IN THE NEXT YEAR.
THE ORGANIZER MUST SEND THE RESULTS IF NOT THEN COMPETITOR WILL NOT GET THE POINTS TO THE RNKING.
IMO. ELITE EVENTS ARE: ARMFIGHT VENDETTA AND ARM WARS
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Post by tomaszwisniowski on Sept 5, 2011 17:28:00 GMT -5
THE RANKING SHOULD BE UPDATED ONCE EVERY 3 OR 6 MONTHS, THEN THE PERSON WHO DOING THE RANKING HAS TIME FOR IT.
2 YEARS - THIS SHOULD BE A MAX DATE OF THE LAST RESULTS TAKING INTO ACCOUNT.
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 17:34:53 GMT -5
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but using a match from 2 years ago to determine where somone is today is ridiculous. Speaking of that match I had just pulled Oncescu 3 weeks before and the Unified Nationals 2 weeks before. Also, if you are going to count that match you have to add Ioan Puscasu b/c he beat Don 4-2 that day. If this is a serious ranking I'd rather you just leave my name off b/c I don't feel this is an accurate representation of my current level. No hard feelings & best of luck with the rankings! as i mentioned it is open to correction,do you want me to quote it ? how come when Devon beats a hurt John it counts on ranking but when you lost a supermatch that you accepted to pull,does not count because of pulling an event two weeks ago? and how about Ion pulling europeans against Taras two weeks before you beat him,according to your logic does it count or not? which supermatch results count and which does not? did Don not beat Kanai only 9 months ago? how many supermatches in last 2 years did the athletes pull ? Denis pulld 1 right hand supermatch how many did Jerry pull,2-3 ? how many did Richard pull,2-3? how many did Tim pull,2-3? how many did Ron pull,2-3? that is all the supermatch ranking material we got.. if you want your name out then i can only respect you but if you wanna discuss with objctive reasons then i am open to this.over which of those guys should you be ranked and according to which winnings of yours.i will not go by opinion but by the results.if i would go by opinion then i would rank you 4. or 5. after Devon,Jerry,Denis and Pushkar (JMO). i am only trying to do a beginning ranking as a base for the future matches. you guys can create an armwars rankings and i can exclude all of those who want to play by themselves in a self created world,no problem for me but trust me its a serious ranking and i have no hard feelings either. Neil called me after you lost Devon and we talked about 30 minutes on the phone and told me that you should be no2 after Devon but i told him that it would be unfair to others to be ranked below you without losing against you.it is same as placing Pushkar who just destroyed a monster version of Arsen in Istanbul above Devon in supermatch ranking just because i believe that he can beat Devon. i believe that Pushkar can beat everyone in the world but he is not even ranked because he has not pulled any supermatch for a long time. it is more objective and serious than the self centered opinions,JMO.
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 17:57:15 GMT -5
IMO RANKING MUST PROMOTE THE ARMWRESTLERS WHO ARE ACTIVETHE PULLERS SHOULD COLLECT THE POINTS. EVENTS SOULD BE DEVITED FOR THE CLASS ELITE, 1ST, 2ND ETC... F.E: ELITE CLASS - 100PTS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND. SO IF PULLER WIN 6:0 COLLECT TO THE RANKING 100PTS FOR START IN ELITE EVENT PLUS 60PTS FOR WON ROUNDS - TOGETHER 160 PTS IF DRAW 3:3 - 130 PTS IF LOSE THEN FROM 100 PTS FOR START - 20 PTS FOR LOST MATCH WHICH WILL GIVE HIM 80 PTS TO RANKING ONLY. STILL PROMOTE ACTIVE PULLERS THIS KIND OF SCORING WILL BE PROMOTE THE SUPERMATCHES WITH THE LARGE NUMBER OF THE ROUNDS WHICH IS 6. SUPERMATCH MUST BE A TEST OF ENDURANCE, STRATEGY ETC... - 2:1 RESULT IS NOT IMO THEN 1ST CLASS EVENTS 70PTS PLUS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND. 2ND CLASS 50PTS PLUS FOR START PLUS 10PTS FOR EVERY WON ROUND. THIS KIND OF SCORING WILL BE PROMOTE ACTIVE PULLERS PLUS WILL FORCE ORGANIZERS TO IMPROVE THE LEVEL OF THE EVENT. (MANY, PLACE, ORGANIZATION ETC..) ONCE A YEAR SHOULD BE DECISION WHICH CLASS IS EVENT IN THE NEXT YEAR. THE ORGANIZER MUST SEND THE RESULTS IF NOT THEN COMPETITOR WILL NOT GET THE POINTS TO THE RNKING. IMO. ELITE EVENTS ARE: ARMFIGHT VENDETTA AND ARM WARS i dont believe the point gathering in supermatch rankings.the one who beats the higher ranked guy,takes his place same as in boxing.
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Post by Michael Todd on Sept 5, 2011 18:34:49 GMT -5
If there is a two year window then that match was July 2009 so, it shouldn't be a factor. I personally would like to be judged on my current form & not by that of two years ago. Oh yeah & Tim Bresnan beat Don 4-0 in Oct of last year.
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 19:25:25 GMT -5
If there is a two year window then that match was July 2009 so, it shouldn't be a factor. I personally would like to be judged on my current form & not by that of two years ago. Oh yeah & Tim Bresnan beat Don 4-0 in Oct of last year. see that is why i wrote that i am open to any correction,thanks ! that is not a finalised ranking.we need to do it all together.ok then i have an idea.we keep the current ranking and then make changes on it with a different ranking whenever the supermatches happen,would it work? for example this is the current ranking; Top 10 World, men right 1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Gadzimurat Omarov, RUS 4. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 5. Andrey Pushkar, UKR 6. Michael Todd, USA 7. Richard Lupkes, USA 8. Tim Bresnan, USA 9. Ferit Osmanli, TUR 10. Dave Chaffee, USA and no tournament ranking will effect this ranking which will separately be put on WOA,and supermatch results will change them and athletes who did not pull a supermatch in 2011 will be out of ranking by the end of 2011. works?
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Post by Michael Todd on Sept 5, 2011 19:37:14 GMT -5
Works for me! I wasn't trying to manipulate the rankings, I just wanted to be given credit for my hardwork & improvement!
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Post by enginterzi on Sept 5, 2011 19:58:33 GMT -5
Michael,all i try is to find the best way by discussing with you guys,so that we can create a fair start for supermatches.thanks for your input! i will do as i wrote above.
good luck with your future matches!
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Post by Devon Larratt on Sept 5, 2011 20:12:15 GMT -5
The big problem in this sport is unification. I doubt it will ever be solved.
A giant problem is government recognition. I believe that many governments recognize the WAF - which is AWESOME, and i WISH that Canada would do the same. it would make life soooooo simple if all nations recognized it. if this was the case i would very likely pull 3 tournaments a year - provincials, nats/ worlds. The WAF testing is a great step for armwrestling, although i believe at this time it does not solve any of the real issues there. From an athelets perspective that pulls the WAF i could justifiably be pissed if he/she wins the largest tournament (in their and their countries mind) and not be recognized as the #1 ranked athelete - which is sometimes the case. For some of us -the WAF is 10 days away from home, a 5000$ expense, and a medal, with zero compensation or recognition at the other end of it.
A rankings issue - for the past decade in most of the classes the WAF has been the heavy weighing placer for world rankings with a major exception - John Brzenk. He was globally recognized as the best of and on for many many years, regardless of WAF participation. was this a mistake? should his ranking have fell some time at the early 2000? that is a more difficult question than many people will want to swallow, and i will leave it at that. either way - the result is that pro tournaments and one on ones became the place to get the #1 ranking in the open weight division the first decade of this millennium, (and i think before that, but thats before my knowledge). Now.... well lucky me, i have that spot, and yes, i fully understand that 2 guys have very legit claims at this title - Pushkar and JC. Between the 3 of us i am sure it will get sorted out, Zloty is coming up, and i respectfully will plan on trying to pull the winner of the open class in the jan-feb time frame whether its Jerry/Puskar/Dennis or Arsen.
many believe that WAF is the biggest tournament, supports the best talent, and is the best thing in AW. In my position i do not. I do agree it is the biggest tournament. I do not believe it supports the best talent. I know that it has been harder to win the Mike Gould Classic in the open division for many years (Held in a bar in oshawa) than win the worlds. I believe Zloty is a harder tournament to win. I could go on. The best thing in armwrestling is Armwars. that is the real deal, it is no side show, and no people "playing by themselves" That IS the leading edge of armwrestling BECAUSE millions of people are watching it. it does not get any simpler than that. my opinion is the rules are better, and it is closer to what most of us really believe armwrestling is than what the WAF has created. I can go on and on, but trust me, talk to anyone who has spent time in that league, and ask them if they believe it is the future. i do.
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