Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on Feb 12, 2012 23:46:09 GMT -5
You guys like to play these games... 1. XAC Tournament 11/12/11 sanctioned by AAA I consider the promotion for this tournament lazy. I know I don't know everything that was done to advertise this tournament, but there wasn't an attempt to create any hype for this tournament. 2 people in the 220s Left Class 4(not sure) in the 220s Right Class Supers was only slightly better because Colby and I both pulled up. I don't believe any 10 year veterans pulled novice, but Bruce pulled novice, and he has a win on Lee Browning. 2. Veterans pulling novice occurs everywhere. I've only pulled novice and amateur once. I've seen UAL and Amateur World Championship events with experienced guys in the novice/amateur. I won't name names. 3. Happens to often to discuss. 4. I believe AAA Nationals was in New York last. I don't believe a single top 10 guy was in the 198 class, but I could be wrong. I heard of people pulling UP a weight class to get a title. Overall, it looked like a non-ranked person had a pretty good chance of winning. What's worse? The rankings or AAA nationals? Maybe I should've gone to AAA Nationals... Herman, maybe you should have been at Unifieds also, 2 unranked guys finished 1&2 there also in the 98's I'm on Louisiana's B Team, so I'm not allowed to travel.
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Post by Gabe Moore on Feb 13, 2012 11:57:50 GMT -5
All good ideas, points to ponder and opinions. I think we've ran a little off track...
If we start simple, with a $50 Lifetime Pro/Open card(earned of course), then I think we could have a financial base to build the sport. I don't have the answer to; who and how will the money be managed...but I feel strongly that the money from the membership dues will create a solid financial foundation.( 5,000 members x $50 = $250,000) What if we elected a commissioner? Or a board of directors? Or hired an outside firm to keep an acct of all monies to and fro?
Just think...if we all came together on this, we could take a huge financial step fwd. The money could be used for any, all or none of the following; 1. Pay for competitors' travel to the world tourneys 2. Pay for travel to national or state tourneys for supermatches/appearances, etc 3. Support AAA, WAF, USAF, UAL... 4. Advertising 5. Pay for state tournaments 6. Begin a new line of armwrestling products(clothing, accessories,etc) 7. Assist promoters with state/national tourneys. 8. This line is open for an idea...
After speaking with a competitor last wind in AL, he said he had to pay his own way to compete in the world championship. I do not believe anyone who represents our country should need to pay for any expenses. The sport should have recognized his achievements and paid for the trip.
It's a simple idea. If any of us have ideas to build from this, then certainly we should consider. However, this idea may never be implemented, only because there might be too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Maybe I just need to take a step back, and stop suggestions, as I am in no position to hold any sort of opinion due to my lack of years in the sport. (3) Karen made a wonderful point...sometimes, those new to the sport form their own opinions way to quickly and try to change the landscape of the sport without knowing the full extent of how to approach it.(not verbatim) An excellent point. Maybe we need to look to the leaders of our sport and ask them where we are going. Or what ideas are in the works.
Or, maybe I should take a back seat.
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 13, 2012 12:16:53 GMT -5
Gabe, I love that you are thinking of ways to improve the sport.
Maybe what I don't understand is the approach of raising more money from the same people who are currently paying for everything as it is. I think it's a great idea to bring in financial support for the sport. But armwrestling is a very small pool of people. Aside from some event sponsors that contribute a tiny percentage toward events, it is the competitors who finance this sport 100% out of pocket already.
You also mention "the leaders of this sport." That's a popular misconception. There isn't anyone controlling the sport as a whole. There is a WAF board that manages one event per year- the WAF World Championships. There is a small board in the US that manages the Unified Nationals, again - one event per year. The rest of the events in the US are held by individuals who may or may not run their events under an organizational name. But there is simply no centralized control over the sport. That's hard to believe, but it's the truth. This sport is really a grass-roots conglomeration of very dedicated armwrestlers.
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Post by Gabe Moore on Feb 13, 2012 12:45:32 GMT -5
Thanks, John. As stated "it is the competitors who finance this sport 100% out of pocket already." Which brings us to another brainstorming idea...why can't we ask tournaments (state only...nationals only...or all tourneys held) to contribute a certain percentage towards the "monetary fund"?
We can change this sport from a "grass roots" organization to an organized, leader-based sport. The sport is growing. And, I'm sure, when compared to the 70's, 80's and 90's, we have a larger population of competitors. With that being said, why are we still approaching it the same way?
For example, no one, in my mind(maybe I'm off track)....however, NO ONE, who qualifies for a world event should have to pay for their travel expenses. If someone is representing our country, the sport should have the financial means to pay, in full, for those competitors' expenses.
Grass roots marketing is key to growing a strong organization. I believe in it. But, there comes a time when an organization should graduate into another phase of growth.
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Post by Jerry Herron on Feb 13, 2012 13:03:31 GMT -5
yea but u must have leaders and a organization to do these thing u are trying to do and they are no way ready for this change u are trying to throw at them .and gaber to raise money dont mean to break the pullers it means get on the phone and get sponsers that are willing to give money to this sports for that cause . why should we have to pay when all that does is tell us no one is trying to get us sponsered to enable us to grow as an organization .
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 13, 2012 14:33:14 GMT -5
Thanks, John. As stated "it is the competitors who finance this sport 100% out of pocket already." Which brings us to another brainstorming idea...why can't we ask tournaments (state only...nationals only...or all tourneys held) to contribute a certain percentage towards the "monetary fund"? Every event you attend is paid for up front by the person hosting the event. If there's any sponsorship, it's because the person hosting the event went out and scrounged up sponsorship. I'm not sure it's a realistic expectation to ask someone who has done all this work to turn part of the proceeds over to someone else. I've held tournaments. It takes an enormous amount of work. I never made a dime. Even if I'd have made money, it would never have been enough to pay me for my time. If somebody told me I should donate the money to a good cause, my reply would be "I just did. I held a tournament for people to go to." We can change this sport from a "grass roots" organization to an organized, leader-based sport. The sport is growing. And, I'm sure, when compared to the 70's, 80's and 90's, we have a larger population of competitors. With that being said, why are we still approaching it the same way? Yes, we can. But what you are talking about is starting your own organization. There simply is no way to make everyone else do things the way you, or I, would like them to be done. But any one of us is free to start an organization that follows our own direction. If the ideas are good, then other people will follow along. As to the total number of competitors- yes. Worldwide the sport is growing. Here in the US, it's not really any bigger today than it was 20 years ago. In many ways, there is less money now and fewer big events today than there were before. The difference: there used to be sponsors. For example, no one, in my mind(maybe I'm off track)....however, NO ONE, who qualifies for a world event should have to pay for their travel expenses. If someone is representing our country, the sport should have the financial means to pay, in full, for those competitors' expenses. Grass roots marketing is key to growing a strong organization. I believe in it. But, there comes a time when an organization should graduate into another phase of growth. That's a good place to start to see if your model will work. If every class of each division were filled, the US Team going to Worlds would be about a hundred people or more. At $3000 each, you're at a quarter milllion dollars per year just to cover sending a team to Worlds with expenses covered. Cash projection, off the top of my head, comes to a figure that is well beyond a realistic fee-based goal on a year over year basis. I don't know of any armwrestler or promotor who won't agree in principle with the goals you laid out. But the numbers show that there needs to be source of cash flow that doesn't come from the actual competitors.
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