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Post by Jonathon Hoffmann on Mar 21, 2012 16:22:08 GMT -5
As many of you know i suffered a spiral fracture of the humerus. the break is clean but super painful. anyway i attached a youtube link to the video and i would like input from experienced pullers as to what went wrong. here is what i think:
1. to much side pressure and no back pressure which kept the match in the middle of the table and put all pressure on my humerus. I have been here 100 times without issue against much stronger pullers so i dont get it...
2. i have had shoulder and arm pain after black bull 2 and am wondering if pullin two classes caused stress fractures?
Also i want input from others others who have had the injury and/or are familiar with it.
1. the surgery is optional, what do you feel is the best direction to go if i will continue to pull???
2. how long until high pain levels subside and how long until i can train lightly again? i just want to get back out there! this crap is my life!!!
I appreciate any input from all pullers...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/61fOCCRlovU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Post by John Parton on Mar 21, 2012 16:41:45 GMT -5
I dopubt if you had stress fractures Jon but having a very stressed muscle might have not given you the support. The break happens when your own muscles twist the bone until it gives. Sammi Hattibaugh might be a good one to give you advice. His arm broke while pulling me a few years back. He was not by the way in a bad position in relation to the table, but I made a huge surge and he was obviously in a bad position in relation to that. I don't know how long his recovery was but I know that 2 years after he won a national title. Chris and I will be praying for you, and keep your chin up!
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Post by Jeff Janes on Mar 21, 2012 20:20:07 GMT -5
I am NOT an experienced puller, but I broke my dominant left arm 6 months ago. I would opt for the surgery, the major problem I have noticed is there is an 18-24 month recovery for your tricep because they have to cut through and seperate it to get to the bone. I'm not ready to pull left yet but I tried at little at 9 weeks doing light pulling but I my arm popped a couple times and I really messed up my side pressure muscles. I would wait at least 3 months and then start using bands at a light weight. My back pressure is fine and getting stronger but I'm like you and use a lot of side pressure when I'm pulling. You can't tell in the video but if you even slightly rotated your body for that last couple inches to get the pin, that could have been your problem. I had a lot of pain in my left from prior tournaments leading up to the one that broke it and I could have had stress fractures, but I don't know. My video clearly shows what I did wrong and I actually turned the match around and was in a winning position when it broke. I did pull with my body and not my arm and although there was no warning I did notice a difference on how my body felt right before it broke. If your like me it didn't hurt when it happened but about 30 minutes afterward or when they decided to splint it it was the worst pain I ever felt. It wasn't a question for me whether or not I was going to get a surgery, I just did it. Check out my posts and video under the "doctors corner" forum. I'm ready to finally pull hard @ 6 months to see where I'm at, but my left has a long way to go! Heal fast bro!
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Post by Jeff Janes on Mar 21, 2012 20:23:22 GMT -5
I had surgery about 20 hours after my break and the pain went from sharp throbbing pain to just throbbing pain for about 4 days strait. Then after the swelling went down (7-10 days peaking around day 5 after surgery, the pain slowly went away.) You'll be more comfortable sleeping in a recliner for the next two weeks with your arm in a sling position so it can get a good start healing. Call me if you have any questions. 731-402-1000 I've been there recently but again, I'm not an experienced puller yet but I am working my way on getting back there.
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Mar 21, 2012 21:15:30 GMT -5
Call me Jon
I left my # on your cell.
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Post by Robin the manhandler Chandler on Mar 21, 2012 21:59:23 GMT -5
Jonathan I'm so sry to hear of your arm break my prayers go out to you big guy
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Post by Jacob Hale on Mar 21, 2012 23:48:46 GMT -5
Hi Jonathan,
Damn brotha, I watched your video several times and the only thing that i could see that you did wrong was ARMWRESTLE!!!! It looks to me like you were in good postion. you had the guy pinned form all appearances. The only thing I can think is that you had no bicep (back pressure) in order to stabilize the humerus and keep stress off of it.
Armbreaks are something that I have thought long and hard about and I have yet to hear a satifactory explanation as to why they happen.
Everyone says, "dont look away form your hand" but looking away from your hand has nothing to do with it in my opinion. There are many pullers who have their entire bodies rotated away from the center of the table and apply immense amounts of pressure and their arms never break. Just look at Todd Hutchings or Michael Todd. And all this business about bones thickening to a point where they wont break is bull crap in my opinion. I dont care if you have the bones of John Brzenk, if you put 100 lbs of torsion pressure on the humerus, its gonna snap.
I personally think that Humerus' snaps when there is no muscle contraction supporting the bone while it is in a torgued position (which is almost always the case when side pressure is applied). Now, there are different positions where this becomes more likely, and less likely to happen. Whenever the hand gets behind the shoulder and the elbow, I think people have the tendency to lean on the bone rather than the muscle and thats why it breaks in the this position more than any other. I think this was the case with Jeff janes" break.
In your case, your hand was outside your elbow and your shoulder, the only difference was you were at 9 o'clock and Jeff was at 12 o'clock.
Personally I think the most important thing you can do is always ALWAYS ALWAYS 1) keep your shoulders square (which you did) and 2) pull to YOUR corner of the table and never only to the side (which you didnt do). Pulling to the corner insures that you are applying vital stabalizing backpressure which your humerus requires when under side pressure torsion stress.
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Josh McEllrath
Gold Member
National Champion
PNW Armwreckers
Posts: 508
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Post by Josh McEllrath on Mar 21, 2012 23:58:39 GMT -5
I agree with Jacob's observation above, but I would also point out that your right hip was not outside your right elbow. Putting the hip tight to the table would have allowed your hand and shoulder to point the right way. It also looked as though you had a big jump on your opponent but he hit against your arm in a losing position. I may be wrong, but that is what I saw. Good luck in your recovery, and my advice to you is to speak to a sports psycologist to get over this. This was a traumatic situation and you need to look at it clinically if you ever plan on pulling righty again. Good luck in your recovery!
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Post by Jonathon Hoffmann on Mar 22, 2012 0:10:09 GMT -5
Thank you all so much and you all appear correct. I used all side pressure and my hand was immediately outside my shoulder. I went easy on the novice guy but this was to my demise. I usually pull alot like jake smith or tim bresnan with a ton of back pressure and a sort of unscrewing motion of my hand... i didnt do this at all and i hurt myself badly. thank you all so much for the input and i appreciate more  the AW community is the best in the world. |
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Post by James Chancey on Mar 22, 2012 5:14:25 GMT -5
I don't think we are watching the right video, I think you hurt it in a differant match and felt it here..
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Post by Jeff Janes on Mar 22, 2012 5:40:18 GMT -5
Hi Jonathan, Damn brotha, I watched your video several times and the only thing that i could see that you did wrong was ARMWRESTLE!!!! It looks to me like you were in good postion. you had the guy pinned form all appearances. The only thing I can think is that you had no bicep (back pressure) in order to stabilize the humerus and keep stress off of it. Armbreaks are something that I have thought long and hard about and I have yet to hear a satifactory explanation as to why they happen. Everyone says, "dont look away form your hand" but looking away from your hand has nothing to do with it in my opinion. There are many pullers who have their entire bodies rotated away from the center of the table and apply immense amounts of pressure and their arms never break. Just look at Todd Hutchings or Michael Todd. And all this business about bones thickening to a point where they wont break is bull crap in my opinion. I dont care if you have the bones of John Brzenk, if you put 100 lbs of torsion pressure on the humerus, its gonna snap. I personally think that Humerus' snaps when there is no muscle contraction supporting the bone while it is in a torgued position (which is almost always the case when side pressure is applied). Now, there are different positions where this becomes more likely, and less likely to happen. Whenever the hand gets behind the shoulder and the elbow, I think people have the tendency to lean on the bone rather than the muscle and thats why it breaks in the this position more than any other. I think this was the case with Jeff janes" break. In your case, your hand was outside your elbow and your shoulder, the only difference was you were at 9 o'clock and Jeff was at 12 o'clock. Personally I think the most important thing you can do is always ALWAYS ALWAYS 1) keep your shoulders square (which you did) and 2) pull to YOUR corner of the table and never only to the side (which you didnt do). Pulling to the corner insures that you are applying vital stabalizing backpressure which your humerus requires when under side pressure torsion stress. Good response and you're exactly right about my break. I was clearly in a bad position and you couldn't see anything that indicated an "arm break position" in Jonathon's video. P.S. It's alot easier watching someone elses video than your own, but it's still difficult to watch. |
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Mar 22, 2012 6:06:46 GMT -5
As many of you know i suffered a spiral fracture of the humerus. the break is clean but super painful. anyway i attached a youtube link to the video and i would like input from experienced pullers as to what went wrong. here is what i think: 1. to much side pressure and no back pressure which kept the match in the middle of the table and put all pressure on my humerus. I have been here 100 times without issue against much stronger pullers so i dont get it... 2. i have had shoulder and arm pain after black bull 2 and am wondering if pullin two classes caused stress fractures? Also i want input from others others who have had the injury and/or are familiar with it. 1. the surgery is optional, what do you feel is the best direction to go if i will continue to pull??? 2. how long until high pain levels subside and how long until i can train lightly again? i just want to get back out there! this crap is my life!!! I appreciate any input from all pullers... <iframe width="560" height="315" src=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Ok....last time, EVER...you can break your arm in, wait for it.......ANY "ARM POSITION". Not just in an "arm break" position...It didn't go "wrong". Side pressure, back pressure, to long, short, etc, yadda yadda. It doesn't matter. Your arm is a novice arm. To make a bone "bigger,stronger" you have to put stress to the bone, hence, novice....So all that doesn't matter. Take advice from you DOCTOR, about having the surgery or not, not from this board. Since some have had it and others, like me didn't. Many who opted for surgery, and like what MY Orthopedist said is, you may have more complications and/or infections with "metal" in you.. This, again, of course, doesn't apply to all. Also, since the humerus is close to the heart, or for that matter, any bone close to the heat will heal quicker, then if the break was further away, say like the foot. Cause it takes the blood to travel further to the area to heal it. Ok, y blood? Cause it carries all the nutrients to heal it. Now pain....you had severe trauma to that area, you broken bones also pierced " material" (muscles, etc), so this all has to heal, so pain my be awhile, mine was a few weeks. Also, obviously, everyone heals differently, since my Dr opted NOT to operate, I was in and out of 3 casts and a brace in 6 weeks, training in 10. GOOD LUCK |
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Post by Aaron Blevins on Mar 22, 2012 7:02:53 GMT -5
As many of you know i suffered a spiral fracture of the humerus. the break is clean but super painful. anyway i attached a youtube link to the video and i would like input from experienced pullers as to what went wrong. here is what i think: 1. to much side pressure and no back pressure which kept the match in the middle of the table and put all pressure on my humerus. I have been here 100 times without issue against much stronger pullers so i dont get it... 2. i have had shoulder and arm pain after black bull 2 and am wondering if pullin two classes caused stress fractures? Also i want input from others others who have had the injury and/or are familiar with it. 1. the surgery is optional, what do you feel is the best direction to go if i will continue to pull??? 2. how long until high pain levels subside and how long until i can train lightly again? i just want to get back out there! this crap is my life!!! I appreciate any input from all pullers... <iframe width="560" height="315" src=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Ok....last time, EVER...you can break your arm in, wait for it.......ANY "ARM POSITION". Not just in an "arm break" position...It didn't go "wrong". Side pressure, back pressure, to long, short, etc, yadda yadda. It doesn't matter. Your arm is a novice arm. To make a bone "bigger,stronger" you have to put stress to the bone, hence, novice....So all that doesn't matter. Take advice from you DOCTOR, about having the surgery or not, not from this board. Since some have had it and others, like me didn't. Many who opted for surgery, and like what MY Orthopedist said is, you may have more complications and/or infections with "metal" in you.. This, again, of course, doesn't apply to all. Also, since the humerus is close to the heart, or for that matter, any bone close to the heat will heal quicker, then if the break was further away, say like the foot. Cause it takes the blood to travel further to the area to heal it. Ok, y blood? Cause it carries all the nutrients to heal it. Now pain....you had severe trauma to that area, you broken bones also pierced " material" (muscles, etc), so this all has to heal, so pain my be awhile, mine was a few weeks. Also, obviously, everyone heals differently, since my Dr opted NOT to operate, I was in and out of 3 casts and a brace in 6 weeks, training in 10. GOOD LUCK This ^ I was going to give some feedback, but thats some f*cking good advice right there. ^ That being said... I made a MAJOR hurdle for myself just watching that match knowing your arm was going to break. I NEVER watch armbreak videos. EVER. I've seen it happen up close and im spooked. BUT.... since I was there and standing near the table when that happened and had watched you and especially him pull all day. BTW... I was the one who said "OH SHHHT" loud on that video. I will say this ...he pressed everyone, every match all day. When that happened I was standing there with John Woosley and we both thought you went press on press and yours gave. But after watching, it didn't... or you didn't. I think you went side with hook... but HE PRESSED FWD directly into your hook from him being in a losing position putting pressure on your elbow and rather than your pronation giving in your hand and arm (which it didn't)... your elbow took that direct pressure and snapped your arm. It may not look like it on video, but that was the pressure he was giving in every match he had that day. Thats JMO.... as far as the advice goes... Christian said it as good as its gonna be said |
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Post by Aaron Blevins on Mar 22, 2012 7:19:20 GMT -5
Last thing.... im kinda convinced thats what happened. WHICH BTW is the reason I would stay away from pulling novice dummies who might have enough power and not enough sense of really whats going on, on the table and will recklessly attempt to ret@Rd right through you because he knows no different, whether it was your arm that was going to break or his. If you were pulling a pro in that match, it may not have happened. You've got to a pro level in terms of strength and technique. Spare yourself the ready gos with Novices and just ease em down nice and easy after pulling. Jmo
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Post by Jonathon Hoffmann on Mar 22, 2012 13:37:23 GMT -5
Last thing.... im kinda convinced thats what happened. WHICH BTW is the reason I would stay away from pulling novice dummies who might have enough power and not enough sense of really whats going on, on the table and will recklessly attempt to ret@Rd right through you because he knows no different, whether it was your arm that was going to break or his. If you were pulling a pro in that match, it may not have happened. You've got to a pro level in terms of strength and technique. Spare yourself the ready gos with Novices and just ease em down nice and easy after pulling. Jmo yeah i agree. i didnt use my usual move. i tried to go easy and that is what did me in... his inexperience caused him to apply weird pressure from a losing position... |
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