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Post by Gabe Moore on Apr 17, 2012 11:04:58 GMT -5
I guess a better way to ask the poll question:
At what age do armwrestlers stop becoming competitive with the rest of the sports' population?
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that we do not need a masters class, starting at 40.
I'm thinking a true masters class should be 60+.
Why have masters, grand masters, etc? Many of the competitors in the masters class(40) are very dominant in the other classes.
There should be only 1 masters....60+.
Maybe an amateur masters...50+...(just a random thought)
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 17, 2012 13:00:16 GMT -5
How do you put a cap on something like that? Look at John Woolsey and Norm Devio. I think it's really specific to the person not the age. There is a reason our masters classes are the most succesful at Worlds. They tune up with youngsters year round in open classes.
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Post by Toddzilla on Apr 17, 2012 15:37:24 GMT -5
Well, if you born June 18, 1980 you would stop being competitive on January 21, 2012.
Unless, you utilized the Visalus micro nutrient profile to fitnessalize yourself, and washed the product out of your hair.....
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 19:14:19 GMT -5
IMO the masters class should be for people who are not competitive in the open class, who should decide that? The individual should. But you should not be allowed to pull both open and masters, if you feel competitive enough to pull opens then you have no reason to pull masters, if you don't then the masters class is there for you and will not be filled with the same first through third from the open class otherwise why separate the CLASS in the first place
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Post by Aaron Cordova on Apr 17, 2012 20:37:35 GMT -5
IMO the masters class should be for people who are not competitive in the open class, who should decide that? The individual should. But you should not be allowed to pull both open and masters, if you feel competitive enough to pull opens then you have no reason to pull masters, if you don't then the masters class is there for you and will not be filled with the same first through third from the open class otherwise why separate the CLASS in the first place I think they should be able to pull both open and masters. The way it's set up is near perfect IMO. The no reason to pull masters I just didnt like David. |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 21:13:12 GMT -5
IMO the masters class should be for people who are not competitive in the open class, who should decide that? The individual should. But you should not be allowed to pull both open and masters, if you feel competitive enough to pull opens then you have no reason to pull masters, if you don't then the masters class is there for you and will not be filled with the same first through third from the open class otherwise why separate the CLASS in the first place I think they should be able to pull both open and masters. The way it's set up is near perfect IMO. The no reason to pull masters I just didnt like David. Masters you just didn't like? I'm not really sure what you are getting at All classes weather it be weight classes, gender classes or aged based classes are there to level the playing field, if the top three guys in the open class are the top three guys in the masters class what is the need for the extra class? Because IMO tournaments are long enough without adding senseless classes. |
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Post by Mike West on Apr 17, 2012 21:19:38 GMT -5
IMO the masters class should be for people who are not competitive in the open class, who should decide that? The individual should. But you should not be allowed to pull both open and masters, if you feel competitive enough to pull opens then you have no reason to pull masters, if you don't then the masters class is there for you and will not be filled with the same first through third from the open class otherwise why separate the CLASS in the first place There you go again David, belittling the masters, as if they should start back as amateurs. Maybe we should only allow the guys that are ranked in the top 10 in each class to pull the Open classes, everyone else isn't good enough to compete in that class. Yes, the number of pullers in the masters is less than the numbers in open classes, that doesn't make them any less competitive. Just because there are bigger numbers of pullers in the open class doesn't mean that they are all at the same level. You never did explain to me from our previous postings on this subject why you think that the guys that pull masters are less competitive than the younger open pullers. If you did a little research you may find that many of the top 5-10 guys in all the open classes are 40+. Also, can you or Gabe explain why you guys are having such a hissy fit about the masters classes? These classes are set up by the WAF, you think your going to make them change? |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 21:54:08 GMT -5
IMO the masters class should be for people who are not competitive in the open class, who should decide that? The individual should. But you should not be allowed to pull both open and masters, if you feel competitive enough to pull opens then you have no reason to pull masters, if you don't then the masters class is there for you and will not be filled with the same first through third from the open class otherwise why separate the CLASS in the first place There you go again David, belittling the masters, as if they should start back as amateurs. Maybe we should only allow the guys that are ranked in the top 10 in each class to pull the Open classes, everyone else isn't good enough to compete in that class. Yes, the number of pullers in the masters is less than the numbers in open classes, that doesn't make them any less competitive. Just because there are bigger numbers of pullers in the open class doesn't mean that they are all at the same level. You never did explain to me from our previous postings on this subject why you think that the guys that pull masters are less competitive than the younger open pullers. If you did a little research you may find that many of the top 5-10 guys in all the open classes are 40+. Also, can you or Gabe explain why you guys are having such a hissy fit about the masters classes? These classes are set up by the WAF, you think your going to make them change? That's funny Mike cause I have spoke with one master puller who beats you every time you pull and he understands why we have a masters class, you are One of the few pullers who will pull both the masters and open class with no money on the line, how many masters classes have the best masters out there pulled that didn't offer a cash prize. But let's say your right mike and the masters class is every bit as hard as the open class, other than unifieds why do we ever offer the class? I'd rather have that time for my drive home. |
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Post by Bill Cox on Apr 17, 2012 22:24:09 GMT -5
Well at Unifieds they run the Master classes on Sunday so the young pullers can go home early and rest.
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 22:31:03 GMT -5
Well at Unifieds they run the Master classes on Sunday so the young pullers can go home early and rest. Unifieds is a different story way more pullers and qualifier for worlds so many who normally don't bother to pull masters or even pull period jump in to qualify for worlds but let's not pretend there is not a reason the class exists |
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 17, 2012 22:39:21 GMT -5
Our sport didn't invent the Masters Class. 40 isn't an arbitrary number, either. It's the standard Masters age across countless sports that offer a Masters class.
Can I ask you guys a question? I'm honestly curious about something. It seems to me that every topic you guys take up as an initiative, without fail, your end goal is all about instituting limitations and bureaucracy. Why is this? It's like you all sit around trying to explore every avenue possible to make participation go down.
I really don't understand the thought process. I am not trying to be offensive, I really am confused. Is your philosophy that different as to what will work, or is it that you don't realize that most of what promotors do was learned over many years of actually competing and holding events?
You guys may be onto something though and I'm always ready to change for the better.
My challenge to you is for you guys to start an organization that follows your own ideas and ONLY your ideas. If the organization takes off then everyone will adopt those ideas. And th great part is you don't have to try to change everyone else's tournaments to fit your vision.
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Post by Mike West on Apr 17, 2012 22:50:14 GMT -5
There you go again David, belittling the masters, as if they should start back as amateurs. Maybe we should only allow the guys that are ranked in the top 10 in each class to pull the Open classes, everyone else isn't good enough to compete in that class. Yes, the number of pullers in the masters is less than the numbers in open classes, that doesn't make them any less competitive. Just because there are bigger numbers of pullers in the open class doesn't mean that they are all at the same level. You never did explain to me from our previous postings on this subject why you think that the guys that pull masters are less competitive than the younger open pullers. If you did a little research you may find that many of the top 5-10 guys in all the open classes are 40+. Also, can you or Gabe explain why you guys are having such a hissy fit about the masters classes? These classes are set up by the WAF, you think your going to make them change? That's funny Mike cause I have spoke with one master puller who beats you every time you pull and he understands why we have a masters class, you are One of the few pullers who will pull both the masters and open class with no money on the line, how many masters classes have the best masters out there pulled that didn't offer a cash prize. But let's say your right mike and the masters class is every bit as hard as the open class, other than unifieds why do we ever offer the class? I'd rather have that time for my drive home. Ummm.....David, we aren't talking about me, everyone beats me, even you did 1 match. There are more than just a few that pull opens and masters classes, should I name a few- Eric Wolfe, Herman McCoy, Norm Devio, John Woolsey, Ron Klemba, Cobra Rhodes, Lee Culpepper, Gene Dunn, Ron Bath, Tim Bresnan, Richard Lupkes, etc., and you think that because they qualify to pull in the masters classes that they are less of a puller than the open class guys, that the Masters classes are a "handicap class", made so us old guys won't get hurt in the Open classes against you young studs  YOU are a joke, I doubt that there are many if any from the above list that you could beat, so what's that say about you  As you've said to me before "why are you getting your panties in a wad" about there being masters classes? And you still haven't answered my question. |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 23:10:38 GMT -5
That's funny Mike cause I have spoke with one master puller who beats you every time you pull and he understands why we have a masters class, you are One of the few pullers who will pull both the masters and open class with no money on the line, how many masters classes have the best masters out there pulled that didn't offer a cash prize. But let's say your right mike and the masters class is every bit as hard as the open class, other than unifieds why do we ever offer the class? I'd rather have that time for my drive home. Ummm.....David, we aren't talking about me, everyone beats me, even you did 1 match. There are more than just a few that pull opens and masters classes, should I name a few- Eric Wolfe, Herman McCoy, Norm Devio, John Woolsey, Ron Klemba, Cobra Rhodes, Lee Culpepper, Gene Dunn, Ron Bath, Tim Bresnan, Richard Lupkes, etc., and you think that because they qualify to pull in the masters classes that they are less of a puller than the open class guys, that the Masters classes are a "handicap class", made so us old guys won't get hurt in the Open classes against you young studs YOU are a joke, I doubt that there are many if any from the above list that you could beat, so what's that say about you As you've said to me before "why are you getting your panties in a wad" about there being masters classes? And you still haven't answered my question. Yes mike even John brzenk is over 40 but most of those guys don't pull masters if there is no money on the line that or a chance to qualify for worlds. And like a broken record I will repeat myself yet again and you still will not answer the question, I have no problem with masters class just pick one or the other, either you are competetive or not no reason to see the same people in the masters as the open .....one more time slow so you can understand it ....if there is no drop in difficulty then why offer the class? And mike I will beat you every single day of the week every single time we pull as long as you can get your walker to the table, and that IS TRUE! |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 17, 2012 23:14:48 GMT -5
Our sport didn't invent the Masters Class. 40 isn't an arbitrary number, either. It's the standard Masters age across countless sports that offer a Masters class. Can I ask you guys a question? I'm honestly curious about something. It seems to me that every topic you guys take up as an initiative, without fail, your end goal is all about instituting limitations and bureaucracy. Why is this? It's like you all sit around trying to explore every avenue possible to make participation go down. I really don't understand the thought process. I am not trying to be offensive, I really am confused. Is your philosophy that different as to what will work, or is it that you don't realize that most of what promotors do was learned over many years of actually competing and holding events? You guys may be onto something though and I'm always ready to change for the better. My challenge to you is for you guys to start an organization that follows your own ideas and ONLY your ideas. If the organization takes off then everyone will adopt those ideas. And th great part is you don't have to try to change everyone else's tournaments to fit your vision. I like you John, you always make great points, personally I am looking for one thing either the class exist because it is leveling the field for older fellas or it is the same as the opens and in that case not needed.....do you think it can be something other than those two? |
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 18, 2012 2:46:24 GMT -5
The whole ideal of belittling the masters class seems funny to me. I can name multiple reasons people participate in the masters category. There are people who have paid their dues and accomplished more than most will that still are passionate about the sport but doesn't want to risk it all against some young buck who approaches competition like a dick measuring contest. There are those who pull it out of necessity. There are those who want to maximize their investment so they enter multiple classes including masters. There are some people who appreciate hardware and utilize the masters class to expand their collection. To suggest that these classes are insufficient or a lower caliber is flawed and disrespectful. One day we all will pass our prime. You don't just abandon what you have invested so much into. People emphasize the kids classes because they're the future. Likewise we should emphasize the masters because they are the pioneers that laid the groundwork and paid their dues.
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