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Post by Brent Norris on Jun 8, 2012 11:51:41 GMT -5
RE: My post above.
I don't want to come across as boasting. I believe there is a "LOT" of us that don't train as hard and steady as we can. Most of us don't reach our full potential.
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Post by donnycarlise on Jun 8, 2012 12:04:52 GMT -5
Photoshop or not yall just need to realize that steroids and all these other magic drinks are the reason why all yall are winning in football baseball armwrestling and even my sport of rugby. I use them for that extra drive i dont get from a nutrition store. I dont abuse them i just use the suggested amount. I been using them for about 4 years off and off. If yall dont get tested in armwrestling then there is no reason not to use em.
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Post by "VENGEANCE" -David Rivera- on Jun 8, 2012 12:29:20 GMT -5
I knew from the moment John posted a pic of Arsen .....ah yeah another steroid thread.
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Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on Jun 8, 2012 15:19:37 GMT -5
Not being a jerk Michael but do some research and you'll find substantially more natural than not. John, Allen, Cobra, Travis Baldwin, Dave Patton, Dave Hicks, Vern Martel, Engin, ect, ect. Even ones that used weren't at the level of abuse that is obvious today. Are you saying those names were, in fact, natural athletes? If so: 1. I don't know the facts to state that any of them were natural or not. 2. I don't believe you know the facts to make that statement. 3. Why would you assume they are natural? 4. Can you know for a fact that someone is using AAS, HGH, etc. by looking at them? 5. Can you accurately determine who is using outside of the Arsen and Denis types?
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Post by kyledarby on Jun 8, 2012 15:45:32 GMT -5
Not being a jerk Michael but do some research and you'll find substantially more natural than not. John, Allen, Cobra, Travis Baldwin, Dave Patton, Dave Hicks, Vern Martel, Engin, ect, ect. Even ones that used weren't at the level of abuse that is obvious today. Are you saying those names were, in fact, natural athletes? If so: 1. I don't know the facts to state that any of them were natural or not. 2. I don't believe you know the facts to make that statement. 3. Why would you assume they are natural? 4. Can you know for a fact that someone is using AAS, HGH, etc. by looking at them? 5. Can you accurately determine who is using outside of the Arsen and Denis types? Read the last line over and over. I'm not gonna argue with you. Most people with a general knowledge of fitness and nutrition can determine natural from pharmaceutical. The majority of that list is obviously natural.
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Post by Jim Werkman on Jun 8, 2012 22:19:43 GMT -5
Well i think that is debatable seeing as how richard lupkes has been using them his whole career. I watched the 86 nationals not too long ago and some of the heavy weights sure looked like they were on them but i wouldn't know for sure. I was born in 86 lol and you know this about richard, how? i have known him my whole life and seen the gym work he has done to get him to the point he is. before you go flapping your jaw or should i say fingers you better no what you are talking about.
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Post by Michael Bluth on Jun 9, 2012 22:17:41 GMT -5
Well i think that is debatable seeing as how richard lupkes has been using them his whole career. I watched the 86 nationals not too long ago and some of the heavy weights sure looked like they were on them but i wouldn't know for sure. I was born in 86 lol and you know this about richard, how? i have known him my whole life and seen the gym work he has done to get him to the point he is. before you go flapping your jaw or should i say fingers you better no what you are talking about. You know you are absolutely right. I've never met Richard, never seen him take steroids or talk about it. I know the guy is a beast when it comes to the gym and training and I'm taking anything away from the guy. But, let's be real. Like others have said, you can simply see it in someone's physique. It's easy to speculate about some athletes but I'm sorry Richard's body has steroid use written all over. I don't mean to sound offensive because I don't know why this would offend him or you. If he takes them, then he can't be offended that we all can see it. If he doesn't, more power to him for showing us all that you can look like that and be natural. I believe the former and I think most guys that spend time in the gym would agree.
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Post by Michael Bluth on Jun 9, 2012 22:18:08 GMT -5
Not* taking anything away
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Post by kyledarby on Jun 9, 2012 22:43:49 GMT -5
Are you saying those names were, in fact, natural athletes? If so: 1. I don't know the facts to state that any of them were natural or not. 2. I don't believe you know the facts to make that statement. 3. Why would you assume they are natural? 4. Can you know for a fact that someone is using AAS, HGH, etc. by looking at them? 5. Can you accurately determine who is using outside of the Arsen and Denis types? Good questions. A lot of these guys careers and success started WAY before the early '90's crack down on anabolic steroids. To assume that there was not HEAVY steroid use a couple decades ago, I would consider that to be naive, IMO. That doesn't mean every one did it, but I highly doubt even the list above is steroid free. I would also believe that steroids on the market now are stronger and more powerful, possibly with less noticeable drawbacks than there predecessors. I have had a couple friends of mine take steroids and some you could tell where taking them and some you could not, but they both admitted it. Now I challenge you to expand and go ahead and articulate how that is naive. You obviously don't know much about the history of armwrestling. I challenge you to research the names on that list. Considering most are in the 154-176 range I'm extremely confident most never used. Personally if I used juice and wasn't over 200 with less than 10% body fat I would hang up. But I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
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Post by Robert Wimbley on Jun 9, 2012 22:45:25 GMT -5
That cant be a real pic?
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Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on Jun 9, 2012 22:52:47 GMT -5
Good questions. A lot of these guys careers and success started WAY before the early '90's crack down on anabolic steroids. To assume that there was not HEAVY steroid use a couple decades ago, I would consider that to be naive, IMO. That doesn't mean every one did it, but I highly doubt even the list above is steroid free. I would also believe that steroids on the market now are stronger and more powerful, possibly with less noticeable drawbacks than there predecessors. I have had a couple friends of mine take steroids and some you could tell where taking them and some you could not, but they both admitted it. Now I challenge you to expand and go ahead and articulate how that is naive. You obviously don't know much about the history of armwrestling. I challenge you to research the names on that list. Considering most are in the 154-176 range I'm extremely confident most never used. Personally if I used juice and wasn't over 200 with less than 10% body fat I would hang up. But I probably don't know what I'm talking about. You don't.
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Post by kyledarby on Jun 9, 2012 23:45:00 GMT -5
Ask some people then. Allen Fisher is on here. Dave Patton has friends on here. As I'm sure do others. You don't have to take my word ask them.
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Post by Michael Bluth on Jun 10, 2012 9:40:13 GMT -5
Here is my final word about this. Very very rarely does anyone ever admit to using steroids. Simply asking someone if they have used them isn't going to guarantee a truthful answer. The point is Americans and Europeans alike have used steroids in all strength sports since their inception. Should we care? I can't speak for anyome else but it seems irrelevant to me.
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Post by kyledarby on Jun 10, 2012 13:08:39 GMT -5
Now I challenge you to expand and go ahead and articulate how that is naive. You obviously don't know much about the history of armwrestling. I challenge you to research the names on that list. Considering most are in the 154-176 range I'm extremely confident most never used. Personally if I used juice and wasn't over 200 with less than 10% body fat I would hang up. But I probably don't know what I'm talking about. You don't. Herman Stevens Steroids are a drug. Most people who use drugs suffer from an addiction. This addiction usually results in a desire for more where the addiction over powers the persons will. This leads to both physiological and psychological symptoms resulting from abuse that more often than not are noticable. This is my belief. Any one who tells me differently I would say you drank the Kool Aid your professors fed you.
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Post by David Owens on Jun 10, 2012 18:26:14 GMT -5
Herman Stevens Steroids are a drug. Most people who use drugs suffer from an addiction. This addiction usually results in a desire for more where the addiction over powers the persons will. This leads to both physiological and psychological symptoms resulting from abuse that more often than not are noticable. This is my belief. Any one who tells me differently I would say you drank the Kool Aid your professors fed you. Kyle While we are debating, are you saying by definition all "drugs" come with an addiction? What is your definition of drug because I know you can't be talking about all "drugs" as a general statement? I have a lot of respect for Allen Fisher but I think as many are he has passed a judgment on our europeon friends who are using steroids by personal choice the same way he has chosen to use juice plus. Now before all the steroid police come on here to tell me that it's "illegal" let me remind you that it is perfectly legal where they live so where is the line? If its illegal in one country then other countries should decide not to be the bet they can be because of laws outside of their own country? I love the term "steroid monster", like Kyle I have a challenge for anyone willing to take it, juice up for as long as you want and sit home on the couch and see if your miracle drug turns you into the incredible hulk. The fact is even with the help of steroids these guys still have the same "hard work and dedication" many love to feel so proud about only probably more of it, after all steroids are expensive and who wants to pay all that money and not maximize the results? I'm not saying its right or wrong, I'm saying what's right or wrong for you may be different then what is right or wrong to someone 5000 miles away or even next door for that's matter If you think there is a level playing field in any sport any time ever you are sadly mistaken, we are all handicapped by our own physical limitations, IMO ANYTHING you take to enhance that is an edge you have on your opponent, the difference is our personal goals and what we are wiling to risk to get it, if arsen or anyone else is willing to spend his own time, money and any inherent risk to win a 15 dollar trophy or a 1000 dollar purse who are we to judge?
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