Competing in Pros and Amateurs?

[Brian Burgos]

Really curious with everyone's opinion regarding this topic. Last few tournaments I been too I saw a few people competing in the Pro and Amateur class. Is this normal? Shouldn't the amateur class be reserved for amateurs who are somewhat new to the sport or competing and don't have that much experience? For my first year and a half I competed as an amateur because I was new to the sport and getting the hang of it but now that I go to practice regularly and have gone to a few competitions I started competing as a pro. Needless to say I'm not as competitive just yet but feel it might not be fair to compete as an amateur anymore.

Some of the people I see doing both are definitely not amateurs and demolish whoever really is an amateur. Not really sure I agree with that. I know there could be some exceptions, for example, if I compete at 154lbs pro but then might also want to do 198 amateurs to test my skill and strength against brute force it makes sense but to do 154lb pro and amateurs, that doesn't seem fair.

What's your take?

[John Byerley]

I still compete in both Am and Open. I've never really weighed in on this topic but its coming up more and more.

Usually - in other sports - PRO means you are a professional at what you do - make money in SOME capacity, and are competitive to some extent in your sport.

Amateurs would mean you don't typically make money in your sport - and are competitive with other amateurs.

I know I've heard alot of opinions talking about how AMS doesnt do you too much good, and only the open will give you experience and gains that you need in the sports.

For me, I dont have teammates, I dont pull often if ever in between tournaments. The tournament is all I got to see where I'm at besides gains on the weights.

If i go somewhere and go 2 and out to 2 top ten PROS - really that doesnt do a whole lot for me.

But like at Europa, when I am in a 16 person amateur class and have to armwrestle 7-8 matches plus the two in the open - it does alot for me and shows me where I'm at, especially with the losses at the amatuer level.

If you have never won a pro match in your life, you're not a pro, no matter what you compete in.

If someone has been armwrestling 20 years but cant win a match in the pros, I have no problem with them competing AMs cuz chances are they wont win the AMs either. And this sport at the end of the day is about having fun, not trying to push yourself beyond your talent or capabilities.

PRO - AMATEUR - NOVICE - IMO, should be determined not by experience, but like every other sport, TALENT, STRENGTH, and RESULTS!!!

I told myself if I won this last amateur event I'd only compete in the pros. It was my first tourney in 18 months, but I came up against a STRONG guy, but one who had never been in a tournement, and I lost. That tells me I got a long ways to go and need to get serious.

I wouldnt have got that same experience or reality check in the Open class - not in my opinion.

Yes there are alot of NEWBIES that pull amateur, but there will be good amateurs that pull.

If you are NEW to armwrestling pulling your first tournament - youre not a pro OR an amateur. Youre just pulling in an arm wrestling tournament. If you continue on in the sport well then that can change of course.

If you are pulling AMS to dominate and avoid pros obviously its probable a poor decision. But with me and my situation, I look at it as a ladder mentally and physically. When I reach the top of one ladder I'll go on to the next, no sooner no later, and I dont think its anything to feel bad about.

[Brian Burgos]

Thanks John,

That is an excellent view point on the subject. I compete and train for the sport because it's extremely fun. If I lose to someone and it was a challenge then it's a good loss to learn from but if I lose to someone who beats me within a second then I can't really learn from that match other than I'm not at that level yet.

[TK]

WHERE'S TIM LEWIS?....

[John Wilson]

Once you know how to pull safely, you should be entering the Open (Pro) class just to learn. Yes, you're going to get smoked. That's the whole point. The Amateur class is a good place to hammer out the basics like how to hook, toproll, not get nervous, etc. It is a very controlled learning environment, but it doesn't really prepare you for the speed and control of Open level competition.

Like John Byerly said, you pull both. You work your technique in the amateurs and then you use the Open class to gage your progress. But you MUST pull against Pros to learn how to pull in the Pros.

[Jonathan Skinner]

My situation is just like John byerley's. I have no one to pull with(moved to new area) and only train weights and some bands and don't train steadily but just as my job allows. So for me, I've said for a while, going to tournaments is just a practice for me and really everything else John said. B/c of that I pull both pro and am,I've nvr won an open match or more than one am class. I have usually had to pull up in weight b/c not a lot of am 154-165s that have showed to the events I've been to.

[Eddie Hines]

I have been competing in this sport for almost 20 years. Started amateur wristwrestling in northern MI., which I pulled for a few years, then moved to NE. where I found Mary McConnaghey and the AAA. New table, (there were no pin pads or hand grips on the wristwrestling table. you held hands in the middle and your arm was the pin pad) new rules, new level of competition. My first 'pro' tourney was a NE State Championship. I pulled novice and pro both. I won my novice class undefeated, but got smoked in the pro class. I continued pulling both classes at Mary's events, and won my amateur class 3 times rather quickly. I pulled open from the beginning to learn what I was getting myself into. Once I was forced to go pro, I felt more ready than I would have been without that experience. I see no problem with guys pulling both to get the table time and experience. Especially since table time itself is probably the biggest tool we pullers have to get better at armwrestling. All the dieting and working out is great, and definately encouraged. But to be a better puller, you need table time, table time, table time. Whether at tournaments or practice. Winning your class 3 times to be considered a pro, sounds like a good formula. It is IMO the best way to determine someones skills at the table. As far as not learning anything from getting smoked in an open class, I disagree. There is lots to learn, if only about your opponent. You will take all you can from pulling him personally and use it next time. I also suggest video of all your matches. Watch it, use it, learn from it. Every experience, every pull, has some next level of learning in it for you.

[Robert Miller]

Agreed with John... gotta pull pro class in order to learn how to compete with the pros.