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Post by John Wilson on Sept 25, 2012 16:29:09 GMT -5
David, can you do a youtube video demonstrating this strap technique? I think I understand what you're saying but seeing it would be much better.
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Post by David Owens on Sept 25, 2012 16:37:57 GMT -5
David, can you do a youtube video demonstrating this strap technique? I think I understand what you're saying but seeing it would be much better. As soon as my wife gets home I will post something
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Post by John Parton on Sept 25, 2012 17:20:17 GMT -5
In the past you were responsible for keeping you elbow inside the front of the pad which unlike the sudden pop toward you you can control by strength if you have it.
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Post by David Owens on Sept 25, 2012 17:52:29 GMT -5
So it works and pretty well
If you want out you can probably get out but if you do it would be obvious and as such a rule could be made that pulling out of the strap is an automatic loss
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Post by Devon Larratt on Sept 25, 2012 18:21:40 GMT -5
All slips should go to straps, regardless of position. it is so much easier and simpler for everyone, reffs, competitors, and fans. David, the strap version you showed, i feel would not do much to stop guys to continue to slip, and fouling them for this would just further complicate things. Even with the current strap system people still come out/break them. this just means 2 straps... no foul. The current strap should be looked at so that there is no "good side" of the table - something with a small middle piece which puts a buckle on each opponents hand in the same position, then a long piece to do the weave. it would be tightened at both sides simultaneously. also the strap should be wider.
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Post by John Wilson on Sept 25, 2012 19:33:10 GMT -5
David's idea is a good try. The thing that jumped out at me, tho, was how easy he slid out of the strap when he wanted to at the end.
To Devon's point. In my own opinion that is what the sport needs. Find every way possible to take the ref out of it. Will you take some bad losses? Sure, but no more than you do now, only now it's due to crappy calls.
The more reffing I do the more I realize that you can tie up the tournament until the end of time being super ref, or you can accept that some things will get missed.
If you like using the refs as part of your strategy to win, you like "super ref" and if you want to pin somebody to win, you want to go home and never remember who the ref was or if there were any refs at the tournament.
There is NO REASON this sport needs two refs. Well there is a reason: the current rules. There's no way for one ref to do it fairly. Get rid of every rule that runs counter to the intention of the sport. When one ref can run the table we're heading in the right direction. In other words, the rules ought to be so few, and fouls so blatant, that Stevie Wonder could be a good ref.
This will never be a spectator sport with a ref's fat butt in the way, and it will never be a spectator sport when the ref decides match after match.
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Post by David Owens on Sept 25, 2012 20:11:21 GMT -5
All slips should go to straps, regardless of position. it is so much easier and simpler for everyone, reffs, competitors, and fans. David, the strap version you showed, i feel would not do much to stop guys to continue to slip, and fouling them for this would just further complicate things. Even with the current strap system people still come out/break them. this just means 2 straps... no foul. The current strap should be looked at so that there is no "good side" of the table - something with a small middle piece which puts a buckle on each opponents hand in the same position, then a long piece to do the weave. it would be tightened at both sides simultaneously. also the strap should be wider. I like the idea of the buckle being the same on both sides, I would still love however to see some video of people trying the strap vertically, to Simons point binding only the hands to gather would leave free range of motion for the wrist where the current installation does not Either way I think the constant ,fight for grip, refs grip, slip and end up in the strap anyone is a waist of time And again if you are gonna say every slip is a strap then you might as well start there because everyone will pull until they realize they can't win then BAIL
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Post by David Owens on Sept 25, 2012 20:18:49 GMT -5
David's idea is a good try. The thing that jumped out at me, tho, was how easy he slid out of the strap when he wanted to at the end. To Devon's point. In my own opinion that is what the sport needs. Find every way possible to take the ref out of it. Will you take some bad losses? Sure, but no more than you do now, only now it's due to crappy calls. The more reffing I do the more I realize that you can tie up the tournament until the end of time being super ref, or you can accept that some things will get missed. If you like using the refs as part of your strategy to win, you like "super ref" and if you want to pin somebody to win, you want to go home and never remember who the ref was or if there were any refs at the tournament. There is NO REASON this sport needs two refs. Well there is a reason: the current rules. There's no way for one ref to do it fairly. Get rid of every rule that runs counter to the intention of the sport. When one ref can run the table we're heading in the right direction. In other words, the rules ought to be so few, and fouls so blatant, that Stevie Wonder could be a good ref. This will never be a spectator sport with a ref's fat butt in the way, and it will never be a spectator sport when the ref decides match after match. It will slide off easy but on by mutual agreence to come apart, it one person is holding on and the other is not the one who was maintaining a grip will be left with the strap the other one left with a loss, I really think it could work, if anyone is having a practice anytime soon I would love to see a video of it being tried for s and g I do like the ideas of all calls needing to jump right out, but again be prepared for what that means, and those who don't like the strap need to find a way to like it because intentional slips are a comin
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Post by Brent Norris on Sept 25, 2012 20:43:14 GMT -5
Soon my pretty's I will unveil a new strap system without a strap. It will change the sport as we know it and we will never look back. It will simplify and improve our situation. All die-hard bitter clingers, as Obama would say, will be left behind as if they are strapped down with the strap. How soon you ask?
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Sept 25, 2012 21:27:09 GMT -5
Yeah, the contention in the thread arose where Leonard mentioned that a "pushing motion" is deemed not to be an armwrestling [required] motion, and Simon asserted that this type of "subjective ruling" would reward one type of style and punish another. Considering all these things, what we have currently seems to be a good compromise. Exactly What we have is already allowing plenty of bs without opening the door to flood of intentional slips and people deliberately pushing people of the pad. Of course if we all start with the strap you can get rid of the intentional slip rule, and if the strap works applied vertically then there's not really any place for much bitching..... Leonard, has this been tried? ?? No it has not. I would be concerned about doing something that cannot pass the WAF. I will experiment with it personally. LH
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Sept 26, 2012 2:08:04 GMT -5
All slips should go to straps, regardless of position. it is so much easier and simpler for everyone, reffs, competitors, and fans. David, the strap version you showed, i feel would not do much to stop guys to continue to slip, and fouling them for this would just further complicate things. Even with the current strap system people still come out/break them. this just means 2 straps... no foul. The current strap should be looked at so that there is no "good side" of the table - something with a small middle piece which puts a buckle on each opponents hand in the same position, then a long piece to do the weave. it would be tightened at both sides simultaneously. also the strap should be wider. Oh good, for a moment there I thought this lefthand puller was about to suggest furry pink handcuffs instead. Does this look familiar, Devon? What about a single, broader strap with a double buckle on each side itself? Still with a narrower middle part. If you're afraid of weaving around the strap, you can A) have a slit in the strap itselft, cut at different angles to weave throught the strap. B) and, or...Have a 2 or more perpendicular straps attached to the main strap. (perhaps having the buckles handle straps from 2 axes simultaneously). Just a thought. We're not really limited by what we can design. I do understand that we need simplicity. But at least we could see the best solution at a pro-tournament level. Also, I'm not really comfortable with all slips going to straps with near-equal matchups, but I can see the sense in it.
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Post by John Parton on Sept 28, 2012 17:08:35 GMT -5
That would be a good rule Simon and make it easier on the refs that's for sure. I lost to Mike Mcgraw in 2004 WWC on a slip call. I had just had a war with Fisher and Mike knew my hand was tired. He blew through my hand and let go hoping they wouldn't see his fingers open. He came and aplogized after. A cagey puller can get away with making his opponent seem to foul in more than one area, but that one would be an easy fix! It was a top notch ref by the way that made the call on me, it's just our hands truly are quicker than the eyes can follow.
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