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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 7:28:57 GMT -5
Mike Shalhoub
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 7:31:35 GMT -5
But what do I know? I close grippers.
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Post by John Wilson on Dec 5, 2012 8:20:49 GMT -5
For sure. Shalhoub is an armwrestlers's armwrestler. You could name just about any armwrestler who came through the Northeast in the 90s and 2000s. You guys pretty much set the bar for technical armwrestling. (*yes, James, don't get a big head but this includes you.) I still say that the more boring an armwrestler is to watch, the more technical they tend to be. They are boring to watch because they are in total control. Of course- broad brush, sweeping generalized statements. I'm speaking in principle. I'm not saying that every boring armwrestler is an example of technicality. Las brings up Richard Lupkes. Richard is a physical specimen with tremendous gifts for armwrestling. Like most gigantic individuals (Cleve Dean, Denis Cyplinkov, Bobby Hopkins, Tim Bresnan, Earl Wilson) they have so much power and physical size that they only develop as much technicality as they need. There are few people who can force them to become technical. They win on power until the day that power alone isn't enough. Lighter guys become technical before they become powerful- out of necessity. When you are 70kg you will not dominate bigger people with your physical power alone. You have to learn leverage, speed, hand control, position, etc to move them. A smaller guy is pushed out of his comfort zone immediately and must engage his brain if he ever wants to win. Eventually the lighter guy gets to a level of competition where everyone he meets is just as technical and he must get stronger all around to impose his will or defend. Big guys tend to get more technical much later on when they get to the level where everyone they pull is just as strong as them. It is a career in reverse of the lighter puller. And once again- I'm speaking in generalities. Every armwrestler is way more complex than we can ever generalize.
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Dec 5, 2012 8:41:12 GMT -5
But what do I know? I close grippers. There, there, James. Admittance is the first step toward recovery. I would kindly request that you use the Training forum and Doctor's corner section to bemoan your shortcomings. Thank you. ;D Please allow the professionals to discuss serious matters in this thread. ______________ James, as John Wilson points out above, your opinion and your abilities are highly respected in the armwrestling world. In the world of academics you find lumpers and splitters. Hairsplitters can be so anal, but some one has to do it. Those that are capable of seeing the bigger picture are indispensable. A holistic approach to understanding armwrestling requires that we take differing schools or thought into consideration which could lead to some insightful discourse and changing perceptions. It is good to challenge established principles and methods at a certain level for the sake of growth, I understand that. I guess we really should have set out to define "technique" and "technical" in the opening post or page in this thread...
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Post by John Wilson on Dec 5, 2012 8:42:57 GMT -5
Perfect technicality is Total Control.
John Brzenk Engin Terzi
To me, there are many who can deservedly compete for number 3. There are many who will have an attribute that is better than the comparative attribute of John or Engin, but nobody who has all of them in greater amounts. In my own opinion, no other armwrestlers that I am aware of have achieved the level of total control as these two. If we are talking OVERALL TECHNICALITY then that is what I believe.
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Dec 5, 2012 9:01:52 GMT -5
Perfect technicality is Total Control. John Brzenk Engin Terzi To me, there are many who can deservedly compete for number 3. There are many who will have an attribute that is better than the comparative attribute of John or Engin, but nobody who has all of them in greater amounts. In my own opinion, no other armwrestlers that I am aware of have achieved the level of total control as these two. If we are talking OVERALL TECHNICALITY then that is what I believe. Yes, John, but there are steps in the leadup to that total control that I suspect that some may want to focus on as it is broken down into it's pillars and puller attributes. In my opinion, I see total control as an outcome of perfect technicality, not that in itself. Or have I misunderstood what your point? Please allow me to point out that as the sport develops, pullers and weightclasses are becoming more and more competitive, advanced. I am a huge fan of John Brzenk; being from South Africa might get me lynched for saying this, but I believe that it's possible that since the player pool is growing, and useful and accurate information is being more readily shared, that John and Terzi in their heyday might not have been challenged as much as they would have in today's competitive environment at the elite level, this possibly includes steroid abuse to gain a physical advance, which would lend to one of your "cornerstones", if I'm not mistaken. There is no doubt that the two you have mentioned are among, if not the greatest technical proponents in the sport. As a complete amateur I'm not just agreeing; it seems more and more obvious. But, as far as the cornerstones mentioned in this thread are concerned, I do believe that the current overall #1 armwrestler in the world rightly deserves that spot for what we've discussed here. But he's not from the US, so that doesn't answer Johnny.
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 9:17:05 GMT -5
Thank you John but it is hard to get a big head when you are in a perpetual state of existential crisis. Oh, and add Benji Dwyer and Cvetan Gashevski. Las, technique in armwrestling is gradually being replaced. Devon once described armwrestling as a martial art form but the art and many of the other qualities of the sport are going the way of the buffalo.
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 9:18:45 GMT -5
John and Engin would also be my picks for most technical btw.
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Post by John Wilson on Dec 5, 2012 9:19:04 GMT -5
Very good points, Las. Yes, you have understood me correctly. Engin and John reached Total Control as a result of perfect technicality.
You say, "...as the sport develops, pullers and weightclasses are becoming more and more competitive, advanced..." ... which would give Engin and John more trouble than they had in their primes.
Precisely. But that is no accident. The knowledge and applied abilities of the newer pullers is built upon the knowledge and experience of those who came before. The new guys are good because of what Engin and John have done before. The newer pullers had them as an example. And not just them, of course. Dave Patton, Allen Fisher, Cobra- who built their abilities on the shoulders of the pullers who came before them as well.
New pullers are not a super race of gifted athletes, the likes of which have never before been seen. They are the logical result of a sport that has grown on the shoulders of those who carried the sport in the past. (Someone who has a needle jammed up their ass probably makes it look like they have more ability than is probably there.)
And my listing of John and Engin does not say that nobody else is a tremendously technical armwrestler. (Devon, Cobra, Chad Silvers, Janis Amolins, Cvetan Gashevski, Neil Pickup) just that in my own mind, only John and Engin have perfected Total Control.
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 9:21:18 GMT -5
Matt Harris is another guy that does not get his just due as a technitian.
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Post by michaelmeador on Dec 5, 2012 9:35:48 GMT -5
I'm getting frustrated. I doubt I'm the only one.
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Post by John Wilson on Dec 5, 2012 9:41:25 GMT -5
Matt Harris is another guy that does not get his just due as a technition. The list of guys who don't get the credit they deserve as technicians is longer than the list of great bands who have been left out of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Neil Pickup Luke Reimer Aaron Lengyel Mike Shalhoub Kevin Bongard Tony Villa James Retarides Simon Berriochoa Omer Bennurken Durson Ondar Kyle Knapp David Randall Wayne Burns Mike West Totraz Tamaev Pascal Girard Doug Allen John Milne This is by no means an exhaustive list. I'm just listing some people I personally have learned key things from- either by talking to them or watching them. I can hear it now. People will point to someone on that list and say that these guys didn't do exciting, high risk moves. Well, that's the point. Technicality isn't always high-wire act.
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Dec 5, 2012 9:52:07 GMT -5
Engin Terzi's response, for interest's sake:
Yes, when Devon answered a question on "how to get stronger in the defensive hook", he replied by saying that he recieved some "great advice from Engin Terzi, years ago where Engin analysed Larratt's style and told him that he needed more rotational strength. Devon went over Engin's advice and finally strengthened his rotation and claimed that he sees the true answer to becoming stronger in the defensive hook as trying to avoid it altogether, as you end up there because you are not strong enough to get into an offensive position and you're getting turned over. Intersting prophylactic and reactive views. Engin's advice may very well have helped Devon's pronator muscles become the most famous in the sport.
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 9:55:12 GMT -5
Janis and Pascal are also awesome techical pullers.
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Post by jamesretarides on Dec 5, 2012 9:55:42 GMT -5
I am posting too much...bye bye
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