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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 13:47:32 GMT -5
tHE clip isn't up yet, I am editing the masters right as of this moment and after reviewing the first Bob Brown Herman McCoy Match..
The parallel pin call blows
I am not going to state factually that it is a bad call given my camera POV being a touch bit higher than the pin line...
after reviewing the match...it is apparent to me even more soo...
(and I have illustrated this opinion in my ROTN rules)
but with SO MUCH BEING ON THE LINE
a parallel pin should not be called unless there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the line has been broken.
The bottom of the wrist and the imaginary space around a pin line is a pretty large grey area...to expect that the human eyeball can know exactly when and where the wrist breaks the line is INSANELY IMPOSSIBLE
gIVEN that fact...it should be a standard rule that it has to be OVERWHELMINGLY APPARENT THAT THE Line has been broken.
No guessing FReaking allowed.
Now...given the circumstances I feel that Herman probably could have held on for the extra fight to close it out But don't WE ALL want to see armwrestling...
Why do we stop a match when it is just getting good???
That annoys me Tremendously!!
I, Gary Roberts, vote that this is forever exercised in all rules WORLD FREAKING WIDE
Thank you
(my opinion would be exactly the same regardless of who is armwrestling if that justification is needed for anyone)
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Post by Karen Bean on Jun 5, 2007 14:09:28 GMT -5
Gary - I don't mean to be rude but you are a videographer NOT an armwrestler nor a referee. You film events, go home and edit them, slow them down, reverse, rewind, and look at it in slow motion and then come on here offering your "expert" opinion. You have, numerous times in the past, criticized referees for their calls but not once have you ever attempted to make the call under the same circumstances. You use the luxury of slow motion and rewind and then make your expert decision. Try it from the same vantage point a referee has and see how well you do.
You should try putting yourself on the same level as a referee just once before making bold statements as to what should or shouldn't be called or what call is right or wrong.
You're right - your line of vision with your camera is NOT and probably never will be the same line of vision a referee has. Not ONCE did I see you squat down equally level with any referee on the table this past weekend and have your camera at the same level, same angle as the referee making a call. So stating that anything a referee may or may not be able to do is "insanely impossible" is inaccurate, inexperienced, and insanely biased.
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Post by BigDaddyJoe™ on Jun 5, 2007 14:22:36 GMT -5
You tell em Karen
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Post by James Chancey on Jun 5, 2007 14:26:10 GMT -5
Well said Karen you also have to think about safty at thar point. I have seen to many arm breaks in this position.
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Post by Chris Gangi on Jun 5, 2007 14:26:54 GMT -5
Gary - I don't mean to be rude but you are a videographer NOT an armwrestler nor a referee. You film events, go home and edit them, slow them down, reverse, rewind, and look at it in slow motion and then come on here offering your "expert" opinion. You have, numerous times in the past, criticized referees for their calls but not once have you ever attempted to make the call under the same circumstances. You use the luxury of slow motion and rewind and then make your expert decision. Try it from the same vantage point a referee has and see how well you do. You should try putting yourself on the same level as a referee just once before making bold statements as to what should or shouldn't be called or what call is right or wrong. You're right - your line of vision with your camera is NOT and probably never will be the same line of vision a referee has. Not ONCE did I see you squat down equally level with any referee on the table this past weekend and have your camera at the same level, same angle as the referee making a call. So stating that anything a referee may or may not be able to do is "insanely impossible" is inaccurate, inexperienced, and insanely biased. This Ladies and Gentleman is why I Love this woman......  |
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:31:58 GMT -5
you shouldn't take it personally...it isn't about that call in general it about "THe rule" and I am sorry but I do armwrestle AND i have been in the sport for four years...and I have watched alot of armwrestling...and I didn't slow mo anything.
and it isn't related to associations or refs in any one circumstance..is the rule is general and I think I have a right to voice my opinion on it...
again...I stated..."when this much is on the line"
I am not attacking anyone in general...I don't like the rule
What would it take for me to have the right to voice that opinion. When What Where and How do I get that right.
Please don't take it personal.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:33:30 GMT -5
what is soo bad about changing the rule from touching the imaginary line to "breaking" the imaginary line?
I don't see why refs would be offended by this opinion.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:34:02 GMT -5
I have ref'd a tournament last year...fund raiser for a high school
The tournament was of parents and teachers
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:35:23 GMT -5
also the safety issue mentioned above...
agreed...safety is important...but regarding those pulling for triple crown. They are experienced armwrestlers
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:36:43 GMT -5
Karen, why did that upset you soo bad?
Did you design that rule or something?
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 14:40:28 GMT -5
Karen...I do more than just "cut video" so I appreciate it if you don't basically tell me to stick to my day job.
this is my life...and I have opinions
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Post by Karen Bean on Jun 5, 2007 14:54:26 GMT -5
you shouldn't take it personally...it isn't about that call in general it about "THe rule" and I am sorry but I do armwrestle AND i have been in the sport for four years...and I have watched alot of armwrestling...and I didn't slow mo anything. and it isn't related to associations or refs in any one circumstance..is the rule is general and I think I have a right to voice my opinion on it... again...I stated..."when this much is on the line" I am not attacking anyone in general...I don't like the rule What would it take for me to have the right to voice that opinion. When What Where and How do I get that right. Please don't take it personal. Let me be perfectly clear ----- I took NOTHING personal. You, on the other hand, as usual, have. Of course you have the right to voice your opinion, just as I do. Four years you have been in the sport! And you have watched a lot of armwrestling! And you don't slo mo anything? OF COURSE YOU DO!!!!!!!!!!! You have even slow motioned film footage and put it up on ArmTV. You have even slow motioned film footage and asked if certain calls should or should not have been made. So please, let's really look at this honestly. Your experience as a referee is nil and void so how can you say what is or isn't possible for a referee to call? As stated, your camera virtually never is even on the same eye to eye level as the referee so how do you make such a statement? What is it based on, because it certainly can't be your experience as a referee. How do you get the right to state that it is "insanely impossible" for a referee to make certain calls? That's easy. Walk in their shoes. Stand on that table with a striped shirt on, event after event after event, making the calls and first and foremost find out what is and isn't possible to call. Until you do that - you cannot make that statement without it being biased and wrong! You will also learn as a referee that it doesn't matter whether you have two people pulling for the Triple Crown, a National title, a World title, or two beginners. The calls are the same - the rules are the same - no matter what! No exceptions, no favoritism. Only rules being enforced 100% for everyone. |
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 15:00:21 GMT -5
I am flabbergasted that you think of me only as a videoagraher
calling a parallel pin is guess work...nothing more nothing less
NO EXPERIENCE NEEDED
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jun 5, 2007 15:01:19 GMT -5
To say my reaction is personal and your is not is an insult
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Post by Denise Wattles on Jun 5, 2007 15:08:47 GMT -5
Gary, I have "watched" matches at around 700 events in 23 years and I would never assume that I know more than the officials. I am not a referee NOR do I pretend to be. I also do not second guess my referees. "Refereeing" a high school event does not qualify you as a referee. ALSO, the high school was very much liable (and you also) if someone had been injured while using untrained officials.
(yeah, I do strongly agree with Karen ;D)
You are a very good videographer. I can only surmise that if you keep attacking the officials at events you film that you may make enemies you do not intend to make on purpose. "Opinions" are like ......everyone has one.
Denise
I will not debate this post, I have stated my "opinion".
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