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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 5, 2005 13:22:39 GMT -5
You missed the point ryan...
If you look deep enough....Christmas has elements of darkness as well....yet most people only see the light.
you are saying that just because you don't see darkness doesn't mean it is not there...
THAT IS MY POINT...
I bet on Christmas morning you wake up and do your holiday thing with your family...preaching to yourself and others how this is the GOOD holiday...one that should be truly recognized...
YET THERE IS DARKNESS EVERY WHERE ON THE DAY..
higher rate of suicide than any other time of year.
It is a marketing Holiday. this is the time of the year that corporations use to fatten the profits.
People getting trampled in the Walmarts trying to get a "tickle me Elmo"
blah
blah
the list can go on.
What's the point?
It is only what you make of it!! Thats it.
To me Christmas is about Family. Seeing mine...thats it.
That is all I care about. I don't care what anyone says or the bible says.
The fact is...This is 2005 and my family is spread all over the country and this is the one time of the year every one gets together and visits.
THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
I can show you darkness in everything. It just matters how you look at it.
It isn't about the Devil.
I go to church...as well as my daughter. She isn't dancing with the devil on Halloween.
You sure have an interesting way of spreading the Word.
If we were to poll people, I think "seekers and new believers" would be scared away by your approach.
You never mentioned whether or not I can see King Kong.
Seriously? Is this okay?
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Post by Ryan Thames on Nov 6, 2005 4:00:35 GMT -5
Jay, First off the "poor kids" comment wasnt to you. I wouldnt have made that comment to you being that i dont know you at all. Im not here to judge you or anyone for anything they do or dont do. If you wanna celebrate halloween and think its just clean fun that your business i dont care. I was simply posting some facts about the origin and its present relativity. You can celebrate the day however you chose. Thats your business. I was not judging allen nor was i judging his kids. I hoped he knew that. Being that you are not Allen and you do not have the type of relationship Allen and i have you wouldnt understand that. The comment wasnt directed to you so dont worry about it.
The "Poor kids" was meant to be a joking response to allen. I had hoped he picked up on that.
If you wanna go to haunted houses thats your business. if you wanna sacrifice a cow in your living room and drink its blood in the name of satan. I DO NOT CARE!!
I simply posted facts about the holiday. if you belive them great if not oh well. If you just simply have totally different view on the matter great. Your business.
I have every right in this nation to share any information with anyone and everyone i chose.
I dont see how my post was so offensive honestly. Stated a few facts what rubbed you the wrong way?
I think Allen and Nancy raise there kids great. No they are not my kids. They are good kids. Did i accuse them of sacrificing a cow? NO!
We spent the day with Allen and Nancy today for state. They are great people. I would never insult them or their kids. I consider them good friends, with good kids. Who by the way did excellent at state this morning.
Gary, Im well aware of the evil on the day of Christmas. Me personally i celebrate the holiday as the birth of christ. Nothing more. I could care less about a christmas tree and will never brainwash my kids telling them lies about santa just cuz its cute. I will tell my kids about Jesus.
I WILL GIVE THEM THE TRUTH IT IS UP TO THEM TO ACCEPT IT OR DENY IT
I WILL NOT LIE TO THEM UNTILL THEY GET OLD ENOUGH THAT I DONT FEEL LIKE WAKING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT ON CHRISTMAS EVE
Jesus didnt die on a christmas tree and St nick if he ever was alive is dead.
On Christmas i do spend time with my family like every other american family. Christmas is a day to celebrate and you can celebrate it however you chose and i will celebrate how i chose.
My only intention with this thread was to give information to any who dare to read it. if it offended you that is not my problem. There is then something you may need to bring to Christ and deal with it.
Gary, your very right that many people will be turned away by my method or message rather. After reading the bible i expect many people to be offended and angry and hate me.
If everyone loves me then something is wrong with me as a christian.
John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Im not concerned with the opinoin of the multitudes on whether or not people agree with my methods. As Paul said in Galatians 1:10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 6, 2005 4:18:03 GMT -5
My point was merely this...
if the devil exists...which I am not completely convinced of this. I, as a man, am still trying to find my way as a believer in the almighty but that aside I do know this.
That if you separate life into two categories...Good and Evil....God and Devil...Right and Wrong...Light and Dark.
Whatever you choose. Both sides can be found EVERYWHERE. Not just Holidays...Halloween or otherwise.
It is up to the individual and their morality to choose their path. And if there is a God which you obviously believe AND (I am searching for those answers in my life)...and those who truly have a Non Darkness intent with Halloween...
then I am sure we won't be stopped from entering the Pearly Gates when our time comes.
Will God say to me when my time comes...
Gary....you did your best to lead a good life.
hard worker.
good father.
went to church.
you tithed.
you did a great job TRYING to sin as less as possible.
and on and on with the list.
good husband.
BUT...I am sorry that you decided to celebrate Halloween with your kid...
SOO OFF TO HELL.
Is that how the story goes?
While we are on the subject of God,
what about the other religions? What does the bible say about those people? I am changing the subject a bit but I am serious.
My third cousin goes to some church that says TV is a sin. Women Can't wear jeans. No makeup.
Or what about the people who think celebrating birthdays are bad because you are puting yourself on the same level as God.
Will everyone who doesn't follow these churches rules be dancing with the devil?
What about Rock N Roll?
The bible was written long before the inventions and creations of technology. How is the bible pertinent to today's world.
I think the commandments pretty much cover the basics but EVERYTHING ELSE IS UP FOR DEBATE.
Even Halloween.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Nov 6, 2005 4:55:43 GMT -5
The story goes a little more like this.......
Gary....you did your best to lead a good life.
hard worker.
good father.
went to church.
you tithed.
you did a great job TRYING to sin as less as possible.
and on and on with the list.
good husband.
And God will say one of two things
1: Matthew 7:21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Or
2: Well done my good and faithful servant.
The deciding factor in ones salvation doesnt lie in whether or not your a good person or whether or not you celebrate satanic holidays.
But that you are born again. Christ will guide you through the rest.
There is nothing we can do to be "good enough" for heaven. We are all destined for hell with out the blood christ.
The word says that we all have fallen short of the glory of God. Our very best isnt good enough.
So if you arent born again then you can sacrifice all the animals you want in the name of satan it isnt going to change the outcome of your eternity you were already going to hell.
The only thing that will change the outcome of your eternity is faith in what christ did on the cross.
Galatians 2:20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Post by Mike West on Nov 6, 2005 9:43:01 GMT -5
Amen Ryan Gary, it's not about religions, it's about a relationship with Christ, who came on this earth, lived His life as an example for us to live by, then gave His life as a sacrifice for our sins (which we all have) so that by accepting Him as Lord and savior, we can then enter heaven (when our time comes) to be with Him forever Or we can choose not to accept what He did for us on the cross, and (when our time comes) be separated from Him forever in hell. Doesn't seem like a tough choice, but for some it is, you gotta have faith Love you brother
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Post by Jeremy Plaster on Nov 6, 2005 13:46:36 GMT -5
Ryan I will only say this one time. Do NOT direct me not to respond or worry about something. Do NOT insult me bro, I aint the one. I will say whatever i chose whenever i chose to. if you dont like it, tell me you dont agree..like i did to you.. DO NOT tell me to stay out of something that YOU put on a public message board! When its PUBLIC whatever is said and to WHOMEVER it is said can be offensive to all reading it. I dont know, nor do i give a crap what your relationship with allen is. I know i like the guy myself quite alot and I thought what was said was offensive to him so I said what I had to say. now I also found it offensive to me seeing that I have two kids that I allow to participate in costumes,candy, kiddie parties and trick or treating..haunted houses. So when you make a statement to that effect..anyone allowing their children these things might have taken offense. I did. And I dont care who you were talking to.
I could go into the rest of the things you said but I aint getting into an argument on that topic with anyone like you. Once more and I cant stress it enough... when you talk to me like that I feel as if you are telling me when I should talk.. Do not do that!
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Post by Jeremy Plaster on Nov 6, 2005 13:48:29 GMT -5
Gary or Mike..please correct me if I am mistaken here, but was Christ not born in April?? I seem to remember hearing this several times, but i cannot remember if the source was reliable on this topic??
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Post by Austin Slater on Nov 6, 2005 14:47:59 GMT -5
Jay,
Noone knows when Christ was born to be honest. Christmas wasnt originally a Christian holiday but believers decided to celebrate the birth of Christ instead of the pagan holiday of that time. I seem to remember that tradition puts Jesus birth sometime in september but Im not sure. Hope this helps somewhat. . .
Austin
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Post by Ryan Thames on Nov 6, 2005 16:10:23 GMT -5
Yes Christ was born around september.
The reason we have a christams tree in our tradition of christams and the reason we celebrate christams on the 25 is because along time ago a group of people noticed the days getting shorter in the winter and that one of if not the shortest day of the years was between december 23-25. These people believed that eventually the sun would go away forever. They began to think that the evergreen tree was their only hope to survive. So they would cut it down nail in their home and decorate it with silver and gold and worship the tree.
This is why the prophet Jeremiah preach to the isrealites that they should not take part or learn the ways of the heathen.
Jeremiah 10:1. Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2. Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Nov 6, 2005 16:24:28 GMT -5
Jay,
I never directed you to shut up. You have every right to respond in your opinoin. However it was not me who called you a "half wit" and used vulgar language hostily directed to you to get my point across.
You jumped the gun on assuming that i was insulting or judging allen or anyone for that matter. YOU WERE WRONG FOR THAT!
No were i was insulting you especially before you responded so childishly. If i did insult you or offend you i apologize. You are more than welcome to respond in anyway to anything i post. I have never asked anyone not to.
If the facts and origin of Halloween insult you or the fact that i posted them insults you. That isnt my problem. It wasnt my intentions to offend you or anyone.
As i said before if halloween to you is an innocent holiday then by all means trick or treat your heart out.
I simply stated some facts and scriptures that the bible has. If you dont care then oh well. Im not losing sleep over it.
If the things i say have no grounds and basis of truth then why are you so offended?
You tell me not to direct you to shut up and i ask you the same. I was not judging anyone or telling anyone how to raise their kids. I was simply stating a few facts. Dont deny me my right to that.
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Post by Tim Elliott on Nov 6, 2005 17:40:18 GMT -5
Well here is my 2 cents for what it is worth.
There is a parable in the Bible of the rich young ruler. I don't have time to give exact references as I am getting ready for church. Anyway he approached Jesus one day and asked him what a man must do to be saved Jesus told him to obey the comandments. His response was very similar to yours Gary. His response was all these have I kept from my youth up. Then Jesus said go and sell all that you have and follow me. Then the man sadly turned and walked away without any response. He couldn't do this for he had great possesions.
Basically the moral of the parable is not to sell all we have in the name of God it was simply Jesus saying unless God is #1 in your life then he is in the wrong place.
This is a very very hard lesson to learn. But it is imperative to a true child of God.
I understand why this post could get to some people but it really is just the facts. Not random opinions. But once you are faced with the facts then you have to make a decision. No one can make you do anything nor was anyone trying. I really think that Ryan was doing a good service to all of us by educating us. He even said to us in closing that we should hand out candy AND tracts. He didn't say we shouldn't ever celebrate it. Just the facts.
Gary, I in no way at all was judging and saying one way or another about your relationship with God. It just seemed to me that you are honestly searching. We can not enter into heaven by just works. Nor can we by just faith. We must have faith by our works. And to get all of this we must confess and forsake our sin. And he will be faithfull to forgive us.
In closing I know Ryans method may not be what some would want but it pales in comparrison to how Jesus approached this kind of thing. Too many people have been lulled to sleep to think that God is only kind and gentle. He is these things but "It is a scary thing to fall into the hands of an angry God" Once again not enough time to look up the reference to this scripture.
Well I have church at 6:00 tonight so I have to go.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 6, 2005 20:42:40 GMT -5
So basically...if you put God first in your life then...you shouldn't have to worry about anything else in life correct...because it will all be taken care of for you by HIM.
The it would make no difference if you celebrated Halloween.
IF the Light is on you then no matter where you traveled...there would be no Darkness...
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Post by Tim Elliott on Nov 6, 2005 21:08:56 GMT -5
Well... that is an interesting way to look at it. In one sense yes you have nothing to worry about because you are in the hands of the one who holds tomorrow. But at the same time lets face it the devil is pretty good at what he does to. So we must always be wary. It all starts in my opinion with the attitude of the heart. If someone has the attitude that they can do whatever they want because God will protect them and they just throw caution to the wind. I don't think that God would approve of that and may just let them get in over their head a time or two.
On the other hand if a person is truly sincere about it in their heart God WILL show them the truth. Then they are faced with a decision. They will either follow what God's will is or they won't. Their is no gray area with God.
This is kind of blunt and to the point but it is the hones truth. A person is either saved or they aren't. If people really read and studied God's word they would really be shocked. God does not mess around with sin. He hates it. It sickens him.
We must be indwelt by God's holy spirit. Period. From there it becomes a relationship like no other. If we have God dwelling in us then yes there is no darkness. But we must continually work to keep this light shining.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Nov 6, 2005 21:44:05 GMT -5
So basically...if you put God first in your life then...you shouldn't have to worry about anything else in life correct...because it will all be taken care of for you by HIM. The it would make no difference if you celebrated Halloween. IF the Light is on you then no matter where you traveled...there would be no Darkness... No.......The bible says that the body of the believer is the temple of the holy spirit. When you are born again the spirt resides within you. God does not live in you or your heart untill then. The temple must be cover in the blood of Christ before God can reside in it. Because we are unholy and unworthy of the presence of God. So when a christian partakes in Such things as halloween it grieves the spirit of God. It offends him, deeply. When we are born again we or the one with Christ. How would you feel if you saw your wife having dinner with another man, a man that you know wants to steal her from you? I mean after all they werent having sex. They werent hurtng anyone right? To her it may be just inocent, but to him it isnt. But you wouldnt see it that way would you? You would be hurt and grieved, right? This is how God looks at these types of things. God gave himself, the father sacrificed his son so that you and i can have eternal life and have an intimate relationship with the father. So that the bride (the church) can become one with the groom (Christ). The spirit of God is grieved when you entertain such evil thougths and activities. If you truly love God, you shouldnt want tyo even risk offending him in that way. Not because of his judgement but because it hurts him. He laid his life down for you, how dare we be so laxed careless of our lives. How can we say what is ok and what isnt. See regardless of whether or not your wifes intentions are pure she isnt thinking nor is she caring whether or not she offends you. ( in the example i used) The fact that she wouldnt care about how you feel is enough to hurt you. Whether she ever acted on it or not. So i encourage you, ask God how he feels about us partaking in a satanic holiday even when your intentions are pure. The fact of whther or not you care what God says will say alot about yourself. That is all I care about. I don't care what anyone says or the bible says........ I go to church...as well as my daughter. She isn't dancing with the devil on Halloween. Why Go to church if you dont care what the bible says? Going to church wont get you to heaven. Neither will being a good father.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Nov 7, 2005 2:01:16 GMT -5
I don't really know what to say to all this...but my feeling at this point (as a person who you might call a seeker, I guess) By nature I have always been sort of a scientific guy. I usually need proof to believe....and am having a tough time getting a grip on this whole faith based thing.
But my feeling at this point is what I am getting from Ryan is...that getting into Heaven is just about impossible under your criteria. I don't know anybody who walks through life "with out offending God" as you put it.
Are you that perfect Ryan? You have never done anything you shouldn't. or thought?, that may offend God.
Anyways those are the thoughts. I don't know what else to say.
It's not just enough to be a good person, raise a good family, be a good father, be a role model, ect ect. I am still going to hell.
Why not enjoy the trip then?
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