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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 11, 2007 21:15:28 GMT -5
Romans 4 1. What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. James 2:14-26 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without your works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus(James' words, not mine) that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the alter? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called the friend of God. See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. That was James 2:14-26....all his words. Again Ryan, works do not merit us heaven, but works show a cooperation with grace. Works illuminate our faith. Without works, our faith is dead. You can not say that once saved, always saved. This physical life is a trial...very difficult. You give a false sense of security when you say once saved, always saved. As long as we are in the flesh, the pulls of the flesh will be at odds with the pulls of the spirit. To conquer the pulls of the flesh it is important to do works of charity and love. That's how the rest of the world will know we are Christians. God bless, Bob
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 11, 2007 21:30:16 GMT -5
i do not believe nor ddo i teach the "once saved always saved" doctrine....i am not a calvinist.
I agree with you that without works our faith is dead.
However.....
Abrahams works were a result of his faith....and it was his faith...not his works.... that was credited to him for righteousness.
Thats faith in Gods redemption plan.
works do not produce righteousness.....our righteousness IS faith ALONE
works are simply evidence that your faith is genuine and it is our faith in christ and him crucified that is our righteousness.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 11, 2007 21:36:32 GMT -5
hebrews 6 6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
this scripture does not ssay.....without faith and works.
It says with out faith it is impossible to please God.
YES works will follow faith......but it isnt the works that God sees as our righteousness.
Our righteousness can only be found in what HE did for US at the cross......not ANYTHING we can do.
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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 11, 2007 21:38:50 GMT -5
hebrews 6 6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. this scripture does not ssay.....without faith and works. It says with out faith it is impossible to please God. YES works will follow faith......but it isnt the works that God sees as our righteousness. Our righteousness can only be found in what HE did for US at the cross......not ANYTHING we can do. OK...It looks like we see eye to eye on this one.......NEXT!
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 11, 2007 21:41:54 GMT -5
lol....
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 11, 2007 21:49:41 GMT -5
your right it also says that mens righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of the lord
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Post by JD Slough on Jul 12, 2007 7:41:36 GMT -5
Here is my favorite on todays subject: Rom 3:22-24 "This righteousness from God comes through Faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ."
Our faith in Jesus Christ is what makes us equal, and we have all obviously fallen short, and just as Bob quoted James 2:14 couldn't make it any clearer.
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jul 15, 2007 0:30:15 GMT -5
Hello everyone :-) After reading the messages on this subject I thought it would be good to share a different, yet one that was held to by the early church. Some of you will be encouraged in the faith, some will noticed this is contrary to what the church has thought them and many I know will not get through it. I leave you with the hope that your faith would rest on the Word of God. teammaine.proboards107.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=offtopic&thread=1184476189Your friend, Allen I trust you all find this encouraging
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Post by TK on Jul 23, 2007 17:08:05 GMT -5
how many beleive Tongues is real ?
a show of hands......my hand shows thumbs down.........
TK
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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 23, 2007 19:24:53 GMT -5
There's no question that it was a gift of the Spirit in Saint Paul's day. I saw one priest speak in tongues, but we didn't know what he was saying. However, he had a gift of healing. People were being cured of cancer and other terminal illnesses. The people being healed were well known locals, not paid fakes. If the priest could cure terminal cases in the name of Jesus, I guess the "tongues" part of it could have been real, even without a translator.
At any rate Todd, this far out kind of stuff isn't what mainstream religion is about. Read the 4 Gospels, then follow what Jesus says to do. That is what religion is about. God bless,
Bob
The 4 Gospels are Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John.
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