|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 30, 2010 20:41:48 GMT -5
Good evening , Jim Bryan used the dont move, go for my Supermatch against Rob Vigeant Jr. I thought it worked very well and made for fair starts. Thanks for your Input Mr.Chaffee. I see alot of powerful guys that i chat with so far are for it too.And the Key-word is always the same:-----------much more fair for both-------- It´s not only about the false-start guys, it´s about a fair-start and easier for all that are involved.And it´s quicker performed (better for spectators on the other hand too). I don't know as well what Travis's style is.... I guess it could be similar to the style Bob Brown was talking about his way to solve the problem of the ref-grip in this video www.myarmtv.com/player.php?id=585What is good: - Fast - Clear - Is a way to help those short thumbed fellas out..... ;D - It gives to the refs the way to call a warning/foul in a sure way - Eliminate the 2nd ref interference (correct if i'm wrong.. but Actual WAF rules includes his help to hold wrists until the GO) What is wrong: - in the first time of use there should be many fouls - almost anything else Bicio , Thank you very much for your answer and the awesome link: www.myarmtv.com/player.php?id=585I agree with you about all what is good about it and we could add even more to it. Now i saw the really good presentation from Bob Brown on ARM-TV never saw it before (I think Every serious AW on this subject should see it first).It is from 2007 but we are here still trying to convincing People that a banana is mostly bended ;D. But that´s how it is at the moment so now i tell you what we will do over here. I have wrote a § Yesterday in our City-Championship "body of rules" that is called " EVEN REFEREES GRIP". It´s easy to understand and compatible to "(stay)...Don´t Move...Go". side-note: there will be no warning in Ref grip. we don´t want to make it complex again. just an example here how we will perform the "Even Ref Grip" in Combination with "Don´t....Move": shoulder...stay....(move=foul)....then comes..straight wrist...stay(Move=Foul)...now "Even Ref Grip" routine (like in Bob Brown video)...Foul if the finger is climbing high over the thumb(no warning here)...then Don´t Move(any Move or quick start=Foul)... both athletes knows that only the "Go" will come now...pause...GO. It will work great i am pretty sure. I will talk with my Head-Referee next day and we will shuttle the whole thing up and it will hopefully be a Big-Step for all after they will see with the own eyes how good it works. We will not wait for Santa clause to fix this for us, cause he had really enough time to fix it during last years.Maybe he forgot to read our wish-list on this important subject even its paste doubled on his fridge and his Sox for so long...anyway. ;D ;D Thank you for reading and supporting.Have a nice weekend A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 29, 2010 9:06:39 GMT -5
Good morning, Great job, A.K. I am anxious to hear how this is received by the athletes after your tournament. Thanks John. I will keep you informed.The athletes from our club are very enthusiastic so far. I just used the "Don't Move" Go command at the tourney in Erie PA. It worked much better than the usual "ready go." I will be using the don't move, go command from now on. I also really like the Travis Style ref grip. It completely negates any "close my hand first, second" advantage. Both worked really well. If a competitor moved before the "go" it was a warning, two warnings is a foul. Once we got started, almost everyone agreed we had very few false starts and very few competitors felt anyone started too early. Jim Word ...very good. ***Progress is about making productive decisions*** ***Regress is often nothing but the incapability of making decisions*** thank you.(thumbs up ) can somebody tell us more about this Travis-style-ref-grip ? very interesting. how is it performed in detail? do you close both hands at the same time? keep it up bye..
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 28, 2010 18:27:04 GMT -5
Hello Friends , Some good NEWS: For the first time in Germany, we will use the (stay)..."Don´t Move....Go" Command in an official yearly City-Championship-Tournament. And this will not be in an isolated village ;D..No..we will have it in our BERLIN CITY CHAMPIONSHIP in NOVEMBER. I told my ppl, that we have some where to start with this. and they back me up immediately. We are very curious about the feedback afterwards. @bicio: "stay" is written in our official "Body of Rules" §10.2 as a helping Command for the "Set up" since last week. We are always looking forward to transform good ideas into reality. Thank you for reading and supporting once again.One step after the other.please move forward and give it a try guys...it´s easy. A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 28, 2010 16:56:04 GMT -5
Hello David , You are really good at that what you doing. NICE
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 27, 2010 17:31:42 GMT -5
WOW.... We are delighted to be a part of this A lot of ppl over her were waiting for Month just to see this awesome announce here.well done.what a list Thanks alot to your TEAM so far for bringing this to the TOP. (Will send you our request asap ) good luck and good bye A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 23, 2010 15:09:19 GMT -5
Hello Gentleman , Has anyone ever tried to get AW into the schools as a sport, like football or wrestling? Where u take it, and get a credit? Yes.In Sweden and it was a very good thing for arm-wrestling as far as i heard about it. the action was something like, bringing table to some schools and show the kids what is arm-wrestling about. If i remember correct Heidi was one of the person behind it. BTW..very good thread Gary. we need both of them but what me need more first is a clear and exact definition of who should be a pro and who not. this would help "the grow" for sure. Is a definition already existing in U.S, that every armwrestler can answer quick if somebody ask them? good luck..
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 6, 2010 22:01:00 GMT -5
The clock is ticking and we are moving forward slowly. As a arm-wrestling fan i want to say thank you to all who understand and support this Idea of upgrading and the opportunities and to everybody who man up for a necessary "reform".
Nobody really wants to go back-wards as long as the eyes are attached in front of the head ;D
there is a way to go and it´s not easy but it starts as usual with a first step..they would love it once after a while, if we only could work it out together now
good luck to all
A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 6, 2010 21:37:19 GMT -5
Hello , wonderful post Chris Ceci, thank you for sharing your toughts.I enjoyed your lines as i enjoyed the significant answer of one of our legends himself : Mr. Cleve Dean. just an another guy with a picture in the hand A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 2, 2010 12:21:38 GMT -5
Leonard, you're right. You're also making my point. Make the ref's job easier. Eliminate the pressure on the ref to make judgment calls whenever possible. Engineer the pads to hide stupid elbow pops, and make the start command too hard to say as one word. Is Ready Go a very simple thing? Sure it is. But a million refs trying their best still mess it up because it's easy to mess up. It's not about the reffing at world's. It's the two million bar room events where the refs have zero training and are probably reffing for free and don't do it all the time. Make it easy for that guy. Nobody's ragging on you, Leonard. What everyone is saying is that it's so easy to eliminate 90% of the stuff that is negative about our sport. For a sport that nobody on earth knows exists, there seems to be a whole lot of needless bureaucracy. All that is needed is a genuine love of the sport and a little common sense. If it don't work, change it. If it ain't necessary, get rid of it. You can't find a simpler sport than armwrestling. So why have rules that make it complex? Why do we need two refs? Because there are too many rules for one poor guy to enforce. Good evening , john W: Powerful Answer John. Thank you very much for sharing your brave thoughts in a very athletic manner.we can feel your legitimate frustration in your lines but the way you express it is exemplary good. @all: One thing is for sure that this subject that we are changing opinions, suggestions and experiences about, is about one of the fundamental aspects of the sport itself and has a tremendous side-effects that maybe for some reason we can not see at the first peek. We (all the supporters) that want it for real, must keep patience and make it irresistible after all concern are solved. (I will share some little experiences if you are interested later) As we already know it, a rejection is sometimes the first reaction and nothing more. Once we understand the potential behind a correct and necessary upgrade, without being offended or irritated (cause things were like they were for so long) then there will be better supporting and more legitimate interest from everywhere to correct things that are not work (useless complex) as it meant to be for such a long time. We can get rid of things that doesnt work like we want it to work after such a long adoption period that it already has. And if there is already something that probably would and should work better and is requested by our own Athletes (majority) and ppl, why in the sake of good should we let it like it is instead of give it a BIG TRY. Who hurts?? We all use this given ability in our daily life (some more then the others) so why not in the sport that we like so much too?? Nothing will happen over night. But ------ Stay...DON´t Move....go------ could be one of those upgrades that bring arm-wrestling FORWARD. Don´t you think guys? After years of the existing of this board, so many threads are out there about evolving and bringing arm-wrestling to the next level and Olympia and na..na..na. But a single...simple...save...requested upgrade make us such a BIG DEAL??. NO not to me and not to you for real. Thank you all A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Sept 1, 2010 9:25:26 GMT -5
Hello AW World , The results of the poll we started here in Germany : Don't move....Go = 78 %Ready....Go = 22 %Neither of the options above /abstention from voting = 0 % The outcome of it is in short the same as here on the Board = Clear modification is neededThe only problem that I see is the fact of that same Fraze being used in other situations. For instance the armwrestler is being set in a referees grip and we use "Don't move" when setting the elbow and shoulders in place. We also use it in a general set up and now it would be part of the start command also. In the US we can use the whole English language but in WAF we are limited to a set number of words. I am sick of referees not being able to give a proper start command. None of our rules have the start as READYGO. They all have it as two words, so referee's out there.........how about doing it right. I is far better to get a couple of false starts instead of one match being started with the armwrestler not being ready. Glad to see a very knowledgeable ref is taking this issue serious enough to answer. As you can see in the pages before, we already mentioned and discuss the "complexity" with the using of the same "Fraze" and the "problems" for both (athletes & refs). So the only way for us to evolve in this case is to make things less complexAnd we already have a simple "smart" suggestion after we all exchange our opinions: -------------- Stay....DON´T MOVE...Go-------------- You can use it in a regular set up and you can use it in a ref grip too. We dont need to say/hear Don´t Move out of the start commando anymore cause " STAY" would be anywhere else instead. My final summary: USA Board (majority) back this Idea so far... German Board (majority) back this Idea so far.... Europe Athletes that we chat with so far back this Idea too... It is obviously requested and brings a lot good side-effects once established regularly. the only "problem" with it seems to be the thing with "confirmed habits" ;D and nothing more. sometimes only a simple habit prevent us from reaching the next level (a master told me once) provided that we want to reach the next level. let us get it done for the sake of all the athletes. have a nice day. A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Aug 9, 2010 21:49:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Aug 1, 2010 18:54:50 GMT -5
Hello back , yes...finally, i find some free time to answer, I really think you should find a way to see the footage from UAL event (armtv?). I have already that privilege and am thankful for it. I agree with you that it works for the spectators and that the start-handling seems to be much easier with "Don´t Move..go" for the Referees and i never doubt it!. We are supporting this improvement but of course it is still suboptimal like bill Collins already mentioned and now we chat about it here, what the points for example are. I was going in to the details of the "regular grip" situation, to use more minds then one, for solving the difficulties around it.And it works!. After that it will be irresistible and easier to implement on the waf level. Just the way i always work on this kind of things. MAKE IT IRESSISTIBLE and it is already done!. And honestly nobody should get too excited or afraid that now everything changes. These things seldom happen fast but they are reality in UAL. Only in UAL for now. Let's hope things will spread around the world but it takes time and may never happen. Not without support that's for sure. Okay Tero , i like this thread you brought up here and you already know it but i have to disagree with you about the excitement point. In my mind positive excitement is nothing but good for " Change". It is sometimes necessary to bundle the power of ppl to get things done.life is exciting and arm-wrestling is exciting.And it is a real excitement to see things improving in a good way.always. To be afraid about changes that will work for all of us (in the long run )is not good. I agree with you here again and hope like you that things get spread around the world. But hope alone might be not enough for us. we have to accelerate things...cause we can together. Thank you very much for your understanding and good threads. Cause what i am only mentioned from the competitors and the ref´s view is this: In the regular "set up" you can take you´r grip by your own, then for example: Referees can say "shoulder" and if they use "Don´t move" here at this point "now with this new scenario" they can say nothing about for example "wrist" then "Don´t move" again.That was the twice think what i meant.because after a don´t move, there can only come a "go" now with this style and nothing else.with the "ready...go" scenario they could use it more often.Bill mentioned it very well, when he says " As a referee you really had to think about what you were saying " so what will you say other then don´t move to set them up in a regular situation and check all the points (shoulder,wrist,knuckles and so on)too. My question´s (that are still unanswered) is about what Ref´s should/could say there? nothing or something?. IMO the best way (for the adrenaline involved in some matches) is to use the command used by the owner orders to his DOG!! ;D And the command is STAYf.e. OK guys... grip.... wrist....wrist...STAY! shoulder....STAY! (wrist cupped) oops ONE warning.... turn the wrists....STAY!.... DON'T MOVE!!..GO!!! That's all... FAST & SIMPLE My absolute favorite nomination by far. Like john Wilson already mentioned, it´s easy, worldwide understandable and can not be any shorter and clearer. If we think, ask and work on things, sometimes we find easy answers together. Armwrestler are very smart. I like it. And that's all by a simple thinking about what a the owner of a dog says?!? ;D ;D priceless cool Thank you very much for your excellent answer bicio. ..and please don´t forget to stay BTW: i start a poll over here that will be finished at 11 august. i will inform you guys about the outcome then. peace & good bye A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Jul 28, 2010 19:38:44 GMT -5
I think that people are used to the "ready - go" starting formula and it should not be changed. If we didnt make changes to the sport we would still be holding on to each others hands instead of a peg and the elbow pads would all be straight across. Changing the command WILL make the matches more fair and possible eliminate false starts which many people often get away with. Just like sprinters the athletes are told a command to take their mark, the next sound is the gun/start as long as nobody leaves early. It works! IMO intelligent answer here...Kevin Siska, i like your point of view.We all think that sooner or later the command will change.i will start a poll here in Germany right now.let´s see what the Armwrestler here think about this thread. will tell you later...
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Jul 28, 2010 19:12:08 GMT -5
Ok. The poll says UAL is on to something. .......there has to be someone who leads the way so GO UAL! Word..(thumps up) Reading your thread today, the first think that jumps in to my mind,that could irritate some of the arm-wrestlers at least in the transition period was the same thing about the "general set up situation" that bill Collins already mentioned This is a perfect example for a confirmed habit that would not work anymore.because you can not use "Don´t move" twice.so we all have to acquire to some new habits in the "set up".and we should.The question here is: What kind of other words are necessary in the "set up" to express the same thing (don´t move) effective without using it anymore? are other words even needed or not? what you think? especially because of this point bill also mentioned: Hello A.K. I don't see a problem here. You don't have to use the command twice. (refs grip) "close your thumbs"-"don't move" (controll, referee closes both hands at the same time so there is no advantage with first grip)-"GO!" If competitor fails to follow "don't move" command there should of course be sanctions like Bill Collins said. And in referees grip oops is straight foul. Thank you very much for your answer here. i am with the idea anyway . But some of my questions need still answers not only from you.Maybe i don´t understand something about the way "don´t move--go" will be performed. I don´t see a problem here too,just some irritations that could happen in the transition period till all are used to it.Bill Collins mentioned it very good. Okay Tero, i have to question you if you are a Aw or Ref by yourself or not?(just curious because you say"Are there some points I can not see as a spectator but competitors find negative? Aside from this am i understand you right, that you say every Situation would/should only start in the "ref´s grip" then? Cause what i am only mentioned from the competitors and the ref´s view is this: In the regular "set up" you can take you´r grip by your own, then for example: Referees can say "shoulder" and if they use "Don´t move" here at this point "now with this new scenario" they can say nothing about for example "wrist" then "Don´t move" again.That was the twice think what i meant.because after a don´t move, there can only come a "go" now with this style and nothing else.with the "ready...go" scenario they could use it more often.Bill mentioned it very well, when he says " As a referee you really had to think about what you were saying " so what will you say other then don´t move to set them up in a regular situation and check all the points (shoulder,wrist,knuckles and so on)too. My question´s (that are still unanswered) is about what Ref´s should/could say there? nothing or something?. But anyway..it´s an idea supported by the most competitors and board-members here as we can see. so let´s keep on rushin together.what could we loose?? How about bridging the gap between WAF and the populace? Why do we have to wait each year for WAF worlds to vote on important issues such as this? Or at least if they could discuss it throughout the year so it could get voted on at Worlds with knowledge of the topic being brought up. That is progress. Love the Dont move - Go much better. Agree with John, like we dont know going up there what we are supposed to be doing? cool and powerful post.i like the part about "discussing throughout the year brings vote with knowledge" i second that guy.. Any suggestion from you guys about how we could bridging the gap, so thinks like this that are needed to be done for so long finally get executed faster? (just a general question i am thinking about it some time now) thank you cya A.K
|
|
|
Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Jul 27, 2010 23:26:01 GMT -5
Hello , This is a good thread here Tero and really useful for the next development in that sector. I think every trend that could bring both groups (competitors & spectators) benefits at the same time, is essential for arm-wrestling in the long term. How do you feel? Should this be the norm?: DON'T MOVE--GO I feel, that it is far better then "ready--go" and as long no one else has a better idea, YES Are there some points I can not see as a spectator but competitors find negative? How do referees feel about this? Does it make easier to start matches and rule false starts? Reading your thread today, the first think that jumps in to my mind,that could irritate some of the arm-wrestlers at least in the transition period was the same thing about the "general set up situation" that bill Collins already mentioned As a referee you really had to think about what you were saying especially in the set grip.....example: thumbs down, don't move-oops, close your hands....Don't move.....go".... This is a perfect example for a confirmed habit that would not work anymore.because you can not use "Don´t move" twice.so we all have to acquire to some new habits in the "set up".and we should.The question here is: What kind of other words are necessary in the "set up" to express the same thing (don´t move) effective without using it anymore? are other words even needed or not? what you think? especially because of this point bill also mentioned: When saying "don't move" it means don't move and it seem easier to control or give a warning if they move when the wording is said, the second warning is a foul.... I say,if it works better, we should go down this road all together it´s a matter of time anyway.so let´s do it and forced it thru. i forced some things thru here in germany´s armwrestling federation with the support of alot Aw friends. If we want it, it´s only up to our solidarity...believe me...easy . btw... Whoever came up with "Don't move" is a genius!!!! He or she should own ARMWRESTLING!!!!! Great job UAL!!! Is he or she not already own arm-wrestling?? especially when he or she is in a good mood??. ;D I´m out for now keep it up guys A.K
|
|