ANSWER TO STRONGEST WRIST IN THE WORLD

[Alper Cosar]

Jun 21, 2009 16:19:49 GMT -5 @enginterzi said:

so in short back pressure can be a negative factor for one's wrist if his wrist is not solid enough.

Good point! A lot to think about - will write on this later as I have to leave now!

[Alper Cosar]

just the first thought comes to my mind that different type of back pressure and different styles clashing can reverse what you say just the opposite way around....

[Tyson Beauchamp]

Engin when will we see Arsen Liliev next?

[Vazgen Soghoyan]

Just kind of info...

Rojer Nowatske did not toproll me last year. He won me in Arnold Classic 2007 154 lbs (70 kg)
weight class. 2 times. I slept the start both times and he could take my fingers, but not wrist. My weight was 63 kg that day.
In ACAC 2008 my first match was with Rojer. I won. And in 2009 I won. Last 2 Arnolds I was already 65 kg THE COMPETITION DAY, pulling in 70 kg.

And if anybody beats me in HIGHER weight class ( I mean strongest pullers), I don't see any problem there. It doesn't make me weaker or anything else...

By the way, Rojer got much more stronger in last 3-4 years. And he can be a big problem to 70 kg titled pullers....

[enginterzi]

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

Rojer Nowatske did not toproll me last year. He won me in Arnold Classic 2007 154 lbs (70 kg)
weight class. 2 times. I slept the start both times and he could take my fingers, but not wrist. My weight was 63 kg that day.....

ok then you became having the strongest wrist in the world last year.so he was 1 class above you.

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

And if anybody beats me in HIGHER weight class ( I mean strongest pullers), I don't see any problem there. It doesn't make me weaker or anything else...

....

if you read the entire post carefully then you will see that no one said your wrist was weak,but said you dont have the strongest wrist in the world.just because you dont have the strongest wrist in the world it does not make you weak.

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

By the way, Rojer got much more stronger in last 3-4 years. And he can be a big problem to 70 kg titled pullers....

when did you move to USA that you make this judgement? have you ever pulled Roger before 3-4 years ago? if this is what Roger told you then i have pulled him many times between 1997-2005 and everytime before we pulled he told me the same thing but i did not feel much difference.i also was at 140 range at most of the times that i have pulled him and many of the times i have pulled multiple weight classes when we pulled eachother.

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

By the way, Rojer got much more stronger in last 3-4 years. .....

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

He won me in Arnold Classic 2007.... n ACAC 2008 my first match was with Rojer. I won. And in 2009 I won.....

it seems like he is not..

[enginterzi]

Jun 21, 2009 16:42:30 GMT -5 Alper Cosar said:

just the first thought comes to my mind that different type of back pressure and different styles clashing can reverse what you say just the opposite way around....

how about showing an example to support what you say ? Bagent,Brzenk,Bath,Gashevski and some others are experts about what they do but have you never seen their wrists being bent back during applying back pressure? if you have not seen then i can gladly post here some example videos..i have not seen Arsen falling in same positions.is that because his back pressure stronger than these guys or his wrist is very solid? do you guys know anyone in the World who weighs 198 and can take Liliev's wrist? "MAYBE" John can do that but not at 198 and i would bet on it.and i am not talking about a continental level puller but the best ever puller.i am sure that everyone including Roger would agree that Brzenk is a higher level puller than Roger.

it is plain and simple,if two guys are applying back pressure then this will put so much pressure on wrists if esspecially the match is in strap.a solid wrist will make the back pressure more effective.i prefer to pull someone who has 20% stronger back pressure than i have but with a weak wrist than someone who has 10% less back pressure but with a stronger wrist than i have.it is your hand and wrist that make what you have effective since you cant apply your maximal strength without having control on it.

wrist strength does not only mean wrist curling.

[enginterzi]

Jun 22, 2009 1:42:45 GMT -5 Vazgen Soghoyan said:

he could take my fingers, but not wrist. ....

are you saying that your wrist is not bent back from the straight beginning position at first start ? it is clear that he took your wrist then you let your fingers slide to not to lose the match.

armpower.net/?page=armtube&fid=608

once again,i believe that you have a powerful wrist and are the best 132 in the world but we are discussing about the strongest wrist and if i think that Liliev's wrist is the strongest then this does not mean that your wrist is weak.

[Cleve Dean]

POUND FOR POUND, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE COULD DEBATE FOREVER AND NEVER COME DOWN TO ONE. IN MY OPINION IT IS STILL THE RUSSIAN KID I TALKED ABOUT. NOW I GUESS I AM TOOTING MY OWN HORN BUT WHEN I WAS AT MY BEST THEN I THINK THAT I HAD THE STRONGEST WRIST EVER IN ARMWRESTLING. THIS IS NOT BRAGGING JUST A FACT IN MY MIND.

[Florian Kellersmann]

Hi Cleve,

I would really like to here some of your training and gym numbers. Which what weights did you use to train wrist curls or curls? Or other feats of strength.

4 years ago, when I was in Georga, my friend Chad Woodall showed me some old pictures from you from the late 70s that he had from his father Steve. You looked monstrous! If you could share some old pictures and memories with us, that would be great and very much appreaciated by the armwrestling fans (because all armwrestling fans are fans of Cleve Dean! .

[Alper Cosar]

Engin, I see your points.
I agree with most of it too... It is very hard to measure a pound for pound strongest point about some technique or someone as the best. You know more than I do in Aw for sure but I just told my opinion and it may be wrong.
Also term wrist strength needs to be identified in detail as well.

I Will call you from the Nationals this weekend to tell you the results..... I want to rest my fingers now (I typed a lot!)

[Kevin Harris]

This is pretty good stuff, I watch Engin pull for years over here and Roger only topped him once in St Joe. And I watched Roger beat Vazgen the first 2 types he pulled him and then Vazgen has beat him the last 2. But in all honesty nothing can be judged from any of this, styles make matches. Engin does fight with Roger setting up and has always won, Vazgen on the other hand likes to load and matches Roger. So basicly I think there is no such thing as the best hand or wrist, You can be twice as smart of an armwrestler and beat a guy with twice as strong of a wrist.

[Eric Williamson]

I really believe that having a strong rotator (pronation ability of the wrist) is more important than all other aspects of the wrist. Now, certainly, one must be strong everywhere to be great. However, I feel rotation is the most important, as it is generally what will provide you with hand control.

That's just the conclusion I've come to in my short time studying this sport.

[John Wilson]

Eric, for an offensive move you are correct. But a stong rotator doesn't keep you from getting yanked across the table. Clamp down force generated from the elbow to fingertips is pure defensive wrist power and it the key to getting a chance to use that big pronation power.

[JAMIE SHELDON]

Engin,

Would you say Devon Larratt has WRIST strength to keep from being top rolled the way he pulls. I havent seen anyone ROLL his hand over yet, maybe i havent seen enough of his matches but i would think that is hand and especially WRIST strength is the best to pull calibre pullers such as Ron and John B and not lose his hand. Correct me if im wrong.

[enginterzi]

Jun 22, 2009 21:47:24 GMT -5 Kevin Harris said:

Roger only topped him once in St Joe.

that never happenned are you joking? i pulled Roger countless times and only once he slowed me down by trying to slip from my hand (which he couldnt) and the rest i flashed him.he never topped me or something.i have pulled him in Idaho,st Joe,Nebraska,S.Dakoda,Las Vegas and some other events in different tournaments.in 1998 st Joe we pulled twice and i flashed him twice in that event at 154s as i also won 198 class over Tony Piccholi(4.),Tom New(2.),Sterling Miles(3.) and Dursun Onder (5.)when i had very high fever.

i pulled him at S.Dakoda where i pulled 4 classes in 2000 and again flashed him.i won all 4 classes over Jason Remer and Omer Bennurkan and others.i was 156 pounds and missed 154s by 2 pounds.Roger registered 80kg after 1. rounds were finished.i beat him at 3. round after i had a near minute long battle with Jason Remer,as you should remember since you took 2. to me;

Men's Right Hand 70kg : 1st - Roger Nowatzke, 2nd - Mark Ziertman, 3rd - Jim Larson
Men's Right Hand 80kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Kevin Harris, 3rd - John Gunsch
Men's Right Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Jason Remer, 3rd - Omer Bennurkan
Men's Right Hand 90+kg : 1st - Rett Houdek, 2nd - Omer Bennurkan, 3rd - Mike Doppenberg
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Men's Left Hand 75kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Jim Larson, 3rd - Mark Ziertman
Men's Left Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Jason Remer, 3rd - Chad Hauger
Men's Left Hand 90+kg : 1st - Rett Houdek, 2nd - Matt Mackey, 3rd - Tom Bartley

pull and beat him in Nebraska in 1999 where i pulled and won 4 classes again.

Men's Right Hand 70kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Miles Wolko, 3rd - Roger Nowatzke
Men's Right Hand 80kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Greg Wilson, 3rd - Miles Wolko
Men's Right Hand 90kg : 1st - Jason Remer, 2nd - Tom New, 3rd - Lonnie Fischer
Men's Right Hand 90+kg : 1st - Rett Houdek, 2nd - Jason Remer, 3rd - Matt Klingsporn
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Men's Left Hand 75kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Miles Wolko, 3rd - David Thornburg
Men's Left Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Lonnie Fischer, 3rd - Tom New
Men's Left Hand 90+kg : 1st - Craig Wirth, 2nd - Rett Houdek, 3rd - Tom Bartley

i beat him again next day when i pulled 3 weight classes (didnt pull 165 left for some reason);

Men's Right Hand 70kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Brian Robling, 3rd - Roger Nowatzke
Men's Right Hand 80kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Greg Wilson, 3rd - Brian Stevenson
Men's Right Hand 90kg : 1st - Jason Remer, 2nd - Gene Anderson, 3rd - Tom New
Men's Right Hand 90+kg : 1st - Rett Houdek, 2nd - Matt Klingsporn, 3rd - Matt Mackey
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Men's Left Hand 75kg : 1st - Miles Wolko, 2nd - Greg Wilson, 3rd - Brian Stevenson
Men's Left Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Gene Anderson, 3rd - Jason Remer
Men's Left Hand 90+kg : 1st - Rett Houdek, 2nd - Matt Klingsporn, 3rd - Tom Bartley



in Idaho i again flashed him at Main Event 98.

2005 S.Dakoda event i pulled 7 classes and there i flashed him again.

2005 vegas i flashed him.

in fact i dont remember all the pulls that we had but one thing i know which is i never had hard time with him.as you know that i always pulled multiple classes over there up to 8 weight classes in 1999 Kansas state where you also pulled.

Jun 22, 2009 21:47:24 GMT -5 Kevin Harris said:

So basicly I think there is no such thing as the best hand or wrist,

you should admit that pulling and winning 8 weight classes over you guys such as yourself,Robling and others (i pulled about 40 matches in same event) should require hand and wrist strength.

Men's Right Hand 60kg : 1st - Brian Robling, 2nd - Lyle Foster, 3rd - Rick Perez
Men's Right Hand 70kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Brian Robling, 3rd - Seth Desplinter
Men's Right Hand 80kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Jeff Ames, 3rd - Ken Penrose
Men's Right Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Chris Anderson, 3rd - Rich Simpson
Men's Right Hand 90+kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Chris Anderson, 3rd - Kevin Harris
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Men's Left Hand 70kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Brian Robling, 3rd - Jeff Ames
Men's Left Hand 80kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Ken Penrose, 3rd - Jeff Ames
Men's Left Hand 90kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Rich Simpson, 3rd - Dwayne Hanel
Men's Left Hand 90+kg : 1st - Engin Terzi, 2nd - Rich Simpson, 3rd - Jim Dimmitt

also Roger is not the only guy that i did not load against.i find it unnecessary to load without strap.side pressure requires the most important wrist factor which is handling solidness.otherwise wrist could not handle the side hit.if one wants to get his wrist being bent back then try a lose grip side pressure and see if the wrist solidness is important or not.

i should not discuss my wrist strength compare to Roger after winning 16 World and European titles.i beat Roger many times even when i pulled even up to 7 weight classes and all had the same result which was a flash pin.if i knew that he is not sure of my wrist strength then i would have held him some seconds before i flashed him.but it just seemed unnecessary to prove him anything when i have to pull a lot of guys after him.