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Post by Denise Wattles on Apr 26, 2005 11:34:11 GMT -5
There was a missed call in Vegas... In fact, you all missed it. Unsportsmanlike conduct. I have spoken to several referees and Armwrestlers, that were and were not in Vegas, and they all agree that in any other tournament ANY wrestler that behaved the way Travis did would have been ejected from the event. No association allows an athlete to "abuse" an official. If TV had not been involved this incident would have been handled entirely different. Leonard has earned more respect that some of you have shown. Being a referee is the hardest job out there and you should all be glad that there are men out there that have the "cojones" to do the job.
Denise
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Post by Chris Gangi on Apr 26, 2005 13:45:04 GMT -5
Being a referee is the hardest job out there and you should all be glad that there are men out there that have the "cojones" to do the job. I AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT.....!!!!!!!! as far as the rest of her statement regardless of tv or whatever you should not bend the rules for anyone... |
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Post by jamesretarides on Apr 26, 2005 15:42:28 GMT -5
Very well put. I want to see an energetic, flamboyant Travis but defiant and disrespectful for the sake of being defiant and disrespectful just ain't right.
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 26, 2005 17:35:44 GMT -5
I reffed at the Florida States and I swore I would never do it again. You can't win. I agree some people think they are larger than the sport. This is where 'Respect for the Game" comes into play. Whenever someone is on the table if a ref or a puller and they walk away feeling ashamed not of a particular loss but from the actions exhibited by their opponent that opponent needs to get DQ'd or fouled. Imagine if the victims kids are sitting watching the parent get hammered. That would have left me a scar as a child if it happened to my dad. When it happened to me I was lucky my son was not in the room. It did however help with my decision to never ref again. For the record I would not have wanted the puller at that time to be DQ'd. He was a friend and lost his temper because he believed I was being influenced by the audience into making a call against him...don't figure  |
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Post by Christopher Myers on Apr 27, 2005 6:30:58 GMT -5
Denise,
Leonard has respect form pullers dont go there. but could you clarify for the record ot leonard can do it for himself. was leonard paid for his services ? was there any compensation for his reffing ? I mean you really donr expect me to feelsorry for somebody getting paid to do a hard job. Firefighters, policeman, meter maids all have hard jobs. I am not saying he is not entitlked to get pay ...he should but if he went there for no pay and paid his own flight and hotel and food like the pullers then he desereves more respect than he gets
Christopher Myers
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Post by leonard on Apr 27, 2005 7:18:22 GMT -5
Chris,
If you got the impression that Denise was asking for anyone to be "sorry" for me. You are sadly mistaken and have an unusual way of looking at the world. Yes I was paid and so was the other referee's. I will not be involved in a contest that does not pay its referee's somehow. If you want a professional referee for a professional tournament then pay them. If you want amateurs then get volunteers and you get what you pay for. Even in my bar tournaments the personnel get a wage, meal expenses and travel expenses. Anyway I guess that wasn't the purpose of your post because that was not the subject of Denise's post.
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Post by Christopher Myers on Apr 27, 2005 7:52:30 GMT -5
"Being a referee is the hardest job out there and you should all be glad that there are men out there that have the "cojones" to do the job." from denise
that statement is an implication of a need for sympathy or undestanding or a need for " cojones". I want to make it clear that you were there for pay and when someone is there for pay it is harder to be sympathetic for them having to deal with the nuances of there job
I never expect you or any other ref to do an event without compensation...you shouldnt have to ...but I dont want to hear how rough any ref. had it when he is getting paid I know a lot of refs who put up with the same elements for no pay
Christopher Myers
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Post by Christopher Myers on Apr 27, 2005 7:55:02 GMT -5
Leonard, I may have an unusual way of looking at the world but you have an unusual way of looking at what is impartial Christopher Myers |
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Post by leonard on Apr 27, 2005 8:33:20 GMT -5
So now you are saying that I am not impartial?
Just because you are being paid does not mean that the competitor should be allowed to disrespect you. Of cource your opinion is coming from years of being a referee. Don't ever say that I am not impartial, I make calls based on what happens at the table not on the person. My worst enemy will get the same calls and set up as my best friend. If you have concerns why havent you talked to me personally? Its that cojones thing.
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Post by Christopher Myers on Apr 27, 2005 8:51:58 GMT -5
Talking to you ...What would it accomplish ? I have seen your posts through out the years and allthough most times I was in agreement with you it did not change the fact that you never gave in even if you are wrong ( or will you insult my intelligence and tell me you are never wrong )
I dont have to be a refferee for years to understand reffing and see when someone is clearly not being impartial. I dont have any issue with "Conjones" I just have enough intelligence to recognize futility and realize all it will do is bring extra scrutiny down on my matches . Many other pullers feel that way also. you dont really foolishly believe that what they say to you is what they say to the rest of the pullers when you are not in earshot .... do you ? you think this is solely my opinion or just one or two of my friends in a " the big man is trying to hold me down phycosis " Leonard please Armwrestling is my hobby not my life and I have better things to do than to get get caught up in paranoia. You have a certain group of people who clearly get favoritism and a certain group of people who clearly get prejudice .... if you did not admit it I understand but if you are in denial of it to yourself that would be shocking to me. I am calling it the way I see it and the way many others see it who like you said may not have the " Conjones", and all though I wont rat them out some high profile pullers you know have posted under other people names on this board when debating you for fear of your reprocussions
Christopher Myers
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Post by leonard on Apr 27, 2005 9:19:54 GMT -5
Well heck Chris in person you acted like you had no ill feeling toward me; I guess the correct word was “acted”.
You say “I just have enough intelligence to recognize futility and realize all it will do is bring extra scrutiny down on my matches” and you contradict that with a post about how I am not impartial. If you really did have that attitude then you would not have gone out of your way to start an argument with me on my “impartiality”. If you say that others have the same delusion as yourself then fine if that is what eases their minds in why they lost their match then that is OK. Actually I believe that is part of the referee’s job. Because if they didn’t have us to blame then they would have to say that their opponent cheated and get mad at them. See people like that just cannot accept that their loss was their fault and no one else’s. Your whole argument about repercussions is destroyed by the mere fact of your post, but then again when you lose it will be my fault because I don’t like you. That’s funny I don’t care who you are. ;D ;D
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Post by Christ Russakis on Apr 27, 2005 10:00:39 GMT -5
most all ref's get paid these days!! if not paid directly, they get free food, hotels, airfare, some kind of appreciation payment. and they should and man do they disserve it. christ
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Apr 27, 2005 10:02:45 GMT -5
ALL REFS S##K!!!! ;D J/K
Denise said, " I have spoken to several referees and Armwrestlers, that were and were not in Vegas, and they all agree that in any other tournament ANY wrestler that behaved the way Travis did would have been ejected from the event. No association allows an athlete to "abuse" an official. If TV had not been involved this incident would have been handled entirely different."
What was different about this tournament then others? Because it was televised?
So because it was televised Travis was allowed to get away with his "actions"? Which if not, would have had an impact on his classes ( BTW: not referring to me, I pulled like crap and would not have won, Eric would have beaten me, I DO BELIEVE THAT).
How in the hell is that FAIR?
Its because you wanted him on t.v. Apperently, he did do the BDSSP interview televised on Thursday.
This applies to BOTH Associations: See although his "antics" have been "good" for the sport. I believe that YOU CREATED A "MONSTER" by allowing him to do his "STUFF" at the table, and off. Most thought it was "cute" except those that had to put up with it. When a puller tells you before a tournament that he has to go "work" on the refs, then the puller tells you how he is going to beat you, and tells you the refs will never catch it, then does it, and laughs about it afterwards. NOW THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES HE'S BEATEN FAIR. In Travis' interview from the Unfieds last year on ESPN, he said that, I'm parafrasing, that I can only get second, thats all I can achieve, and I'm satisfied with it, something to that effect. DUH! Something is wrong. And that was CREATED BY YOU!
NOW he pushes the envelope further. Whats the saying? Give someone an inch and they will take a mile. THATS ALL ON YOU! Now all of a sudden "people" aren't liking it, because his "antics" are being directed towards them not just to the competitor across the table.WAH WAH. SO BE IT!
BTW: Who's decision was it NOT to eject him? Was it anyone Travis was sitting with at the OFFICALS TABLE all day?
So is television exposure more important then the integrity of the sport?
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Post by Christopher Myers on Apr 27, 2005 10:51:18 GMT -5
Leonard ,
I didnt and dont have any " ILL will to you" I have enough of a command of the english language to express and differentiate between thinking that you would never see any side other than yours ( which is where you are allreadly going ) and not liking you. You can see a fault in someone and still like them ... otherwise no body would have any friends. because the rest of us unlike you, are imperfect amd make mistakes and have preferences and predjudices
next time I see you I will act no different than the last time I saw you. I am just speaking my opinion of what I see
where in my post did I negate my own argument .... I am really curious how and where you saw that. You have not made any bad calls on me so I am not implying that you caused me to lose. I have had reffs ( present party excluded ) make bad calls where I have won and bad calls where I have lost that is the game and statistics. but certain players ( not me ) get favortism and certain players ( not me ) get predjudice. paint it as dillusional all you want the amount of people who feel that way is substancially greater than you think
this is your quote
"Well heck Chris in person you acted like you had no ill feeling toward me; I guess the correct word was “acted”.
You say “I just have enough intelligence to recognize futility and realize all it will do is bring extra scrutiny down on my matches” and you contradict that with a post about how I am not impartial. If you really did have that attitude then you would not have gone out of your way to start an argument with me on my “impartiality”. "
what I am saying and meant there was if it was not clear allready is, that I beleive that you are not "impartial" I also beleive had I ever said anything challenging as I am now, I would have then be on the "crap list" and receive stricter obsevation when pulling which I do beleive I will now be on the "crap list" and be observed stricter
there is no name calling or malis on my part or will there be ,but I dont think you are perfect or flawless and I know that is hard for you to accept
take it with a grain of salt
Christopher Myers
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Post by leonard on Apr 27, 2005 11:24:22 GMT -5
Chris I guess we have different ideas on what is Ill will. To me being impartial on the table is the ultimate insult and you could have done nothing more to upset me. Especially from someone who hasn’t insulted me in the past. Nice dig about me thinking that I am imperfect. I have never said that, I have made mistakes on the table but they were honest mistakes. You call what you see but you can not see everything. If I call something it is because that is what happened and to be impartial means to me that you see something and don’t call it or you are stricter on someone because you don’t like them. Since you are now supposedly on my crap list (something that you were afraid of in the past) you now have an excuse for your losses. Chris I will treat you the same on the table as before but please don’t pretend to like me because anyone who insults me and questions my integrity cannot like me so quit acting.
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