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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 16:51:09 GMT -5
Isaiah was a prophet of God an spoke about Jesus dying for our sins. How is Jesus' own sayings not true if you believe what he says was true. He was God's messenger. It mentions him multiple times in the old testament. Any book written in history, Bible, Quran, Mythology, etc..... May not be the same as it was back then. Alot of any religion has mythology similarities in it. Does that mean that, that is where it came from? I don't believe it does. If it did then all of them are just based of of more ancient mythological books. I read your link but how do you know thats what the prophet did when someone else wrote what he supposedly said which is what your saying is wrong with the book of John. The book of Matthew, Mark, and Luke were also not written by the names they are put under. They come from more ancient documents that were put into the books to spread Jesus' sayings and words. It's hard for a fact to find the author of most ancient text. It doesn't really offend me because you can believe what you wanna believe an thats fine with me Im just saying you can't throw historical facts around only to fit our own views. I don't believe all the supposed facts myself because everyone always skews them to fit their views no matter what their intentions are. But when discussing history the Bible adds up imo and revelations that I have had throughout life. Im sure there is alot more to God and Jesus than there is in any text we will ever read or find. No text is the complete and final text of God. He will be involved in our lives for now and forever more not just from text from history.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 16:56:51 GMT -5
No offense taken at all though. Discuss away, whether you believe me or not I look at and read the links an stuff you post. Although I wish you would post more of the words from your own mouth and mind than a link.
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 2, 2010 17:24:43 GMT -5
ok,if you want to continue then it is fine with me  Isaiah was a prophet of God an spoke about Jesus dying for our sins. How is Jesus' own sayings not true if you believe what he says was true. He was God's messenger. i agree that he was-is GOD's messenger,no discussion about it.if you are talking about Isaiah then he says; "Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. i do not have any problem with everyone including Jesus being GOD's servant,as he also mentioned; " I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." so the real inconsistence is adding divinity in Jesus' nature while he admits himself to be GOD's servant.people who added into his Gospel should have erased such verses so that his divinity theory would be more believable. Does that mean that, that is where it came from? I don't believe it does. If it did then all of them are just based of of more ancient mythological books. your problem is to see everything black or white.i am not saying that Bible is a mythological book.it's origin is Word of GOD but conditions created chaoses.if the same exact birthday of Mithra is accepted to celebrate for Jesus' birthday (december 25.),if the Lord's day Sunday is also borrowed from Mithra and way too many other things such as LOGOS that is the theory of Greeks,is used in the same exact ways such as the ways that i quoted then no need to discuss about it if you are saying that it was the original revelation of GOD.who knows maybe Jesus as well born on december 25. even that does not help you to realise the influence? I read your link but how do you know thats what the prophet did when someone else wrote what he supposedly said which is what your saying is wrong with the book of John. i explained all these but i guess helping you to understand something is harder than most of the things that i have faced in my life. The book of Matthew, Mark, and Luke were also not written by the names they are put under. They come from more ancient documents that were put into the books to spread Jesus' sayings and words. It's hard for a fact to find the author of most ancient text. yes but it is clear to see these books' testimony being near to eachother and that is how it should have been since they all wrote about the same incident.but the 4. Gospel went too far enough to go against the most important law of GOD that they had to create trinity doctrine after 3 centuries. read the Acts until it becomes the story of Paul.and show me one single verse about Jesus' divinity please. ACTS 2.22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 3.6Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. 22 For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways." 4.10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus." 14For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us." 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." No text is the complete and final text of God. . i understand you to feel this way about your Book,but i do not feel about my Book in that way. |
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 2, 2010 17:44:32 GMT -5
No offense taken at all though. Discuss away, whether you believe me or not I look at and read the links an stuff you post. Although I wish you would post more of the words from your own mouth and mind than a link. if you have not been realising my thoughts then i take this as a compliment Johnny.because except the historical informations that i had to quote correctly most of my posts are my own thoughts. i like to use sources to back my claims and i use a lot of verses as well.finding the related verses are all up to my knowledge. should i post my own thoughts instead of the the sayings of the Greek theologians to prove the relation between John's book and Logos theory? for example you asked me about Quran (about wine) and i gave you 100% my knowledge to educate your ignorance,but supported with verses. i use web sites for sources of true information.i can not re-write the verses of GOD by my own mind, or the theories of the theologians, or the letters of the saints,fathers and popes. |
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 2, 2010 17:57:17 GMT -5
7.Is wine consumption good or bad? A.O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90). B.(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15). C.Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25). Johnny, thanks giving me chance to give you the education about the Islam that you did not have correctly in your college. as i have mentioned before that Quran came to very ignorant people who were doing evil things during that time.the Quran verses came to educate a nation in a spiritual way.they were not religiously learnt people unlike the children of Israel,so their transformation had to take sometime by letting them to think about what was ordered.so that they would not be only following the orders but also understanding why they were necessary. there is one more verse concerning the Gambling and strong drink and it came first; 2.219 .THEY WILL ASK thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: "In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring." And they will ask thee as to what they should spend [in God's cause]. Say: "Whatever you can spare." In this way God makes clear unto you His messages, so that you might reflect. above GOD first makes them think and understand why these things need to be prohibited even though there is some fun in them.GOD sent us on this earth to test us and many of the prohibited things have their own attraction so that even though we desire them we control ourselves to deserve what is better than these which is the eternal life.by saying that i must also mention that GOD did not prohibite us anything that we need,HE prohibits only what is extreming for us. then to this uneducated nation GOD prohibited the gambling and strong drink directly after creating negative incidents about these prohibited things,so that they understand that the advice which was given earlier was right; 90. O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only an uncleanness, the Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful. 91. The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist? then let us come to the verses that you do not understand because of not coming into the subject with a good intention.GOD created everything according to HIS intention to create them.for example GOD is able to make even animals to be able to speak.or if GOD wanted HE could have allowed us to do whatever we want to.GOD prohibited us many things just to test our obedience.so to judge the heavenly things by considering them with the earthly things is a mistake.it is same as saying like "HOW COME WE CAN HAVE AN ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN WHILE WE BORN AND DIE OVER HERE ON THIS EARTH" so just because the wine makes you drunk on this earth it does not mean that GOD will create it's effects in the same way that HE created to test us over here.so what GOD forbids is disobedience,not that GOD is unable to create the wine without its negative results; 56- 18. With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains: 19. No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication i hope that you this time understand one of my posts. from which link do you think that i got this information? i understand how i make you,who studied religions in college,feel but no need to feel bad. |
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 2, 2010 18:04:59 GMT -5
for your information,months of my life i spent everyday from the wake up time till the sleeping time by reading Bible and Quran up to 16 hours a day.it does not mean that i stopped learning but mine is an independance study,not what others dictated me.for example i bet there is no MUSLIM and neither 99% of the Christians in the world realises that Mark 10-18 of today's Gospel of Mark was quoted differently (in words and meaning) in the letters of the early church fathers.i have found this through my own re-searches not long ago because i need to know as much as truth that i can by available sources.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:42:50 GMT -5
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:44:33 GMT -5
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.
Why does it refer to the moon as a she??? That is a mythological concept about the moon being a she/goddess?
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:50:16 GMT -5
Modern science tells us that, the formation of human embryo is a seamless continuation from conception to birth; hence there are no hard- and- fast boundaries of stages as Quran describes. Quran describes 4 stages, which matches exactly with Galenic description of development of human embryo (which was proved wrong by modern science).
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:52:11 GMT -5
86:7 human sperms originate from between the back and the ribs, which contradicts the science of embryology which stresses that sperms originate from the testicles.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:52:31 GMT -5
4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans, an obvious contradiction And for the record Christmas was made into a christian holiday your right. Originally a pagan thing but they based it about christ to make it a good day. Nobody knows when Christ was born. Supposedly sometime in sept. In the west we associate it with Christ birth just as a celebration. How is that Pagan?  You can make anything, anything you want. Like the curse words we have what defines a curse word? The publics opinion of if a word is offensive or not. |
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Nov 2, 2010 18:54:23 GMT -5
Like I said there are lots of inconsistencies. If you wanna find them in any book. Im done now. Believe what you believe and I will believe what my Lord Jesus said.
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 3, 2010 2:51:14 GMT -5
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf. Why does it refer to the moon as a she??? That is a mythological concept about the moon being a she/goddess? goddess?? just because in Arabic the moon is called as "she"? borrowing the most critical informations of the faith from mythologies such as ; 1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense. 2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”. 3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. 4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb. 5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood. 6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length). and in Quran calling the moon as "she" are the same things in your understanding? |
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 3, 2010 2:57:53 GMT -5
Modern science tells us that, the formation of human embryo is a seamless continuation from conception to birth; hence there are no hard- and- fast boundaries of stages as Quran describes. Quran describes 4 stages, which matches exactly with Galenic description of development of human embryo (which was proved wrong by modern science). in Quran it does not talk about 4 stages so let us not lie during the discussion; Three Dark Stages of the Baby in the Womb In the Qur'an, it is related that man is created through a three-stage process in the mother's womb. ... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate? (Qur'an, 39:6) The expression "fee thulumatin thalathin," translated into English as "a threefold darkness," indicates three dark regions involved during the development of the embryo. These are: The darkness of the abdomen
The darkness of the womb
The darkness of the placenta************************************************* These phases refer to the different developmental stages of a baby. In brief, the main characteristics of these developmental stages are as follows: - Pre-embryonic Stage In this first phase, the zygote grows by division, and when it becomes a cell cluster, it buries itself in the wall of the uterus. While they continue growing, the cells organize themselves in three layers. - Embryonic Stage The second phase lasts for five and a half weeks, during which the baby is referred to as an "embryo." During this stage, the basic organs and systems of the body start to appear from the cell layers. - Foetal Stage From this stage onward, the embryo is called a "foetus." This phase begins at the eighth week of gestation, and lasts until the moment of birth. The distinctive characteristic of this stage is that the foetus looks much like a human being, with its face, hands and feet. Although it is only 3 cm long initially, all of its organs have become apparent. This phase lasts for about 30 weeks, and development continues until the week of delivery. still it is not one of the principals of the faith such as LOGOS theory. |
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Post by enginterzi on Nov 3, 2010 3:07:24 GMT -5
4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans, an obvious contradiction Johnny, where is the devil from? from another god? no he is also from GOD but this does not mean that GOD is evil.and if the devil is able to make us doing evil things then is this only his fault or we also are responsible for the such evil for being deceived by him? so the goodness and evil come by GOD,means that GOD allowed satan to do his best to mislead us.but GOD also created a free will in us to make our own desicion about the path that we will follow.devil does not kill people,people kill people,devil does not steal people's goods but people does.so people are the ones who makes evil to become an action.but the goodness is the gift of GOD and that is what HE orders us to follow. And for the record Christmas was made into a christian holiday your right. Originally a pagan thing but they based it about christ to make it a good day. Nobody knows when Christ was born. Supposedly sometime in sept. In the west we associate it with Christ birth just as a celebration. How is that Pagan? You can make anything, anything you want. Like the curse words we have what defines a curse word? The publics opinion of if a word is offensive or not. there could have been found another day to celebrate Jesus' birthday instead of borrowing the birthday of a mythologic god. also the LOGOS was borrowed as well and it was not a minor thing but A MAJOR thing that contradicted with the most important command of YAHWEH.it changed the main principle of the religion that is the ONENESS of GOD.three and one are different numbers. |
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You can make anything, anything you want. Like the curse words we have what defines a curse word?