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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 2:55:42 GMT -5
In 1992 when i joined for MBBS in medical college , i was an angry young man just fresh from all physics ,chemistry and mathematics.
when i started learning physiology of human body i had many many questions and doubts ..
i asked my seniors ...
i asked my teachers...
they understood the question but acted like they didn't understand ...and scolded me ...
What i can do..
.can i just hate the subject??
can i stop learning medicine ??
nothing i could do. i just learned that given in the available books ...learned physiology ...learned genetics...what they kept on the books... logic or not logic....later...
Later i learned pathology ,microbiology, immunology,medicine and so on in the next years....i got cleared some of my previous doubts obviously as the science provided more and more information every year...science told us some of the old knowledge were not right ...and learn the new knowledge...we obliged...
Now after some years i restarted learning same subjects like physiology, genitics ,immunology in new edition books [18years later]...and found that there are answers to many of my previous doubts....but most of the facts remained same....but new logical explanations came...
Means what??
there are facts which may not be able to explain properly... but it doesn't mean that it is not true.... and it is the job of the person to be patient to clear doubts ...and not the responsibility of elders or others to explain and feed them every thing...
After all who loses ?
the student loses if he doesn't believe in the fact which is true but not logically acceptable at that point of time ...
Years later[2004] when i became a teacher in medical college i faced students similar to my own old self [with so many questions] .
what i had to offer to them ?
i tried for an extend to clear things ...but some times it was difficult for obvious reasons of complications in the subject....then i also tried to avoid or ignore them and put them in the list of problem creators...
ultimately who lost ?
i didn't lost anything except the name of ''an approachable person''.....now i am used to living without that name ...ha ha...
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 3:59:11 GMT -5
I dont think anyone is side stepping the question. We give answers but mostly aren't accepted as evidence in your court. No that's not what I'm saying. Usually when it comes down to the "how do you know" question, it's usually side-stepped. So honestly what is your evidence then? Chris , will you believe me if i tell you some thing which i have witnessed? or after reading what i have as an evidence , you will laugh at me and tell this guy is lying or he was in hallucinations that time ?? answer me if you are keen to know about God with an open mind... or what type of a person you require to convince yourself in this subject? |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 9, 2011 8:19:37 GMT -5
Hahahahahaha!!
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 9:38:05 GMT -5
John, just rattlin peoples nerves a bit...more or less just effin around.......but Mr Dixon glory, u lie about being a national champ, on two different forums that we know of, so now u want me to believe that u went to medical school at 17 yrs old, and u witness all this miracle stuff...maybe you did, but I know you lie about dumb sh.t so why believe that?? what is my gain if you believe in God? |
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Post by Simon Berriochoa on Apr 9, 2011 11:08:59 GMT -5
I was calling on my theology studies to get to about 3000 years, I did some poking around and there was not much in the way of cleanly detailing the year of the great flood. I did find a reference to about 1000 BC though.
Without going into the details, my calculations assume that modern man grossly exceeded anything we know to possible in human reproduction today.
The original set of parents were allowed to create one child per year for 1000 years meaning the original birth mother carried 1000 children, (multiple births twins etc. not calculated) and each generation once reaching 15 years of age were further allowed to parent 1 child per year for 1000 years before death. That is pretty extreme and still it is not possible to get to the current population or even the estimated population in the early 1800's.
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 11:38:54 GMT -5
I was calling on my theology studies to get to about 3000 years, I did some poking around and there was not much in the way of cleanly detailing the year of the great flood. I did find a reference to about 1000 BC though. Without going into the details, my calculations assume that mondern man grossly exceeded anything we know to possible in human reproduction today. The original set of parents were allowed to create one child per year for 1000 years meaning the original birth mother carried 1000 children, (multiple births twins etc. not calculated) and each generation once reaching 15 years of age were further allowed to parent 1 child per year for 1000 years before death. That is pretty extreme and still it is not possible to get to the current population or even the estimated population in the early 1800's. so Simon, you mean to say that there was no flood. and not meaning to say that there was no God?? The story of flood or as many other stories in the old testament are not producing point against God IMO. and i also wonder whether earth can fully be surrounded by water by rain? may be possible if the ice from the arctic and Antarctica liquefies .... otherwise where will the water come from to cover the whole earth? so only some part of earth might have been under the flood ...other parts like India and china would not have been under that flood...just my thoughts... men lived there/here also... |
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Post by Robert Bishop on Apr 9, 2011 12:07:37 GMT -5
Dixon
before the flood it never rained because the water was in the ground
at the flood water came up out of the ground and according to the bible it took 6 months on the ark before they were able to come off the boat
I am one who believes the earth was not 70% water on the surface before the flood because of everything found in the sea like off the coast of Japan
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Post by Simon Berriochoa on Apr 9, 2011 12:14:28 GMT -5
I know there are a lot of posts out here so it is tough to keep up with them all. I had proposed a question to all selecting from two possible divine creation options. They are not my beliefs but in the spirit of considering something other than my own conclusions I am asking others to do the same.
Short version....Is it more likely that god created and populated the earth with Adam and Eve, then he later eradicated those people, starting over again and repopulated the earth to today's numbes with Noah's ark filled with pairings of humans and animals.
or is it more likely
God populated the earth with an intelligent design of lower level creatures that evolved in concert with the earth, knowing full well that evolution was a necessary requirement in the proper growth and adaptation of all creatures as well as the planet.
If you want to dissect that the proposal is that there is a god but rather than magically putting fully evolved humans on the planet and later destroying them and starting over, that instead god intelligently created a planet full of lower level creatures that have evolved and advanced at an accelerated pace into modern man, no flood that wiped out all but a few etc.
I know this is still tough for some to consider as the bible is very core to their beliefs but it is a consideration and challenge of the biblical vs. the logical.
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Post by TK on Apr 9, 2011 12:42:28 GMT -5
Lot of reading..... Ugh....
In a nutshell, to this day now!
We all know people exaggerate a bit much?
So just imagine how wild the imagination was back in the day when we had no video no camera phones?
You could tell your story how tall you wanted it to be!
Such thing as magic?
Do you believe in Magic?
Well magic doesn't exist! Optical illusion does.
Just sayin'
A book can be written on facts, but with a stretched imagination!
TK
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 12:49:41 GMT -5
i believe that God might have produced many living things which evolved to the present level. some left the scene.
and i strongly feel that [since myself was also in the side of atheists from my age 13 to 20years] the God was refused by many because most of the religions present God with a lot of baseless stories surrounding Him... may be because the religions want to simplify the concepts for easy understanding of all levels[IQ LEVELs] of people. and to get fixed in children's mind also ..may be to get more attention ......
Noha's or Adem's incidents will not be the cornerstone of the concept of God and his relationship with men. IMO. they are just for narration IMO.
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 12:58:14 GMT -5
Dixon before the flood it never rained because the water was in the ground sun ,water and trees if present ,will produce rain imo. Just like i mentioned earlier when you try to defend a concept about the existance of God ,we should not allow these type of weak spots to dominate the scene.just my opinion. |
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Post by Simon Berriochoa on Apr 9, 2011 13:04:41 GMT -5
“How arrogant man, to claim he understands the acts of a god”
I had asked people to comment on this saying and I am not sure anyone has, it is not a trick where I am trying to get people to say something I will use against them. I think it speaks to both sides of the argument and the hypocrisy of even considering that we can debate such things with our mere human intellect and limited understanding.
What this saying means to me if directed to the creationist is the folly of man’s attempts to put the acts of a god into the words and the common logical confines of the human mind, stories of the bible are ones that attempt to explain in common human terms things we cannot explain, they are cautionary tales we are to learn from and be inspired by. I have long held that the most damaging statements to the concept of divinity are not those of science but the biblical ones.
As directed to the evolutionist, given the concept, it is the proposal that we attempt to judge those ideals based upon what is the relative equivalent of having the lead pipe in a game of Clue.
Putting this in perspective and in context of the saying: To my knowledge God never authored a bible, in some faiths the words are said to have been directly delivered yet did those receiving individuals actually put pen to paper to create a bible we now call from? Meaning the bible and any form of it, is only as solid as the limited ability of the mind that authored it, again given the complexity of the subject matter.
Believers in God would still believe even without the story of Adam and Eve or Noah would they not?
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 9, 2011 13:22:55 GMT -5
“How arrogant man, to claim he understands the acts of a god” I had asked people to comment on this saying and I am not sure anyone has, it is not a trick where I am trying to get people to say something I will use against them. I think it speaks to both sides of the argument and the hypocrisy of even considering that we can debate such things with our mere human intellect and limited understanding. What this saying means to me if directed to the creationist is the folly of man’s attempts to put the acts of a god into the words and the common logical confines of the human mind, stories of the bible are ones that attempt to explain in common human terms things we cannot explain, they are cautionary tales we are to learn from and be inspired by. I have long held that the most damaging statements to the concept of divinity are not those of science but the biblical ones. As directed to the evolutionist, given the concept, it is the proposal that we attempt to judge those ideals based upon what is the relative equivalent of having the lead pipe in a game of Clue. Putting this in perspective and in context of the saying: To my knowledge God never authored a bible, in some faiths the words are said to have been directly delivered yet did those receiving individuals actually put pen to paper to create a bible we now call from? Meaning the bible and any form of it, is only as solid as the limited ability of the mind that authored it, again given the complexity of the subject matter. Believers in God would still believe even without the story of Adam and Eve or Noah would they not? agreed .....[considering this thread is not about the merits or demerits of any religion nor about the honesty of the religions] |
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 9, 2011 18:12:13 GMT -5
Simon I completely agree.
That goes into the dimensional theory I've talked about several times.
All creation - plantlife, animals, us - have differing levels of dimensional intelligence - plantlife has been set in motion - over time even if destroyed it will come back. A tree has no concept of life, time, or those around it, but it does live. Animals live, breathe, and share some similar emotional and personality characteristics with humans, but still operate mostly on instinctive properties, and may not exactly have any clue or contemplation as to life - death - afterlife - or emotional connections with those things. I do not believe that the animal kingdom has a spiritual side either, but are more in tune with nature, as nature is the "dimension" below the animals.
We are living breathing creations - with emotional, physical, and spiritual properties. We also have a sense of time, beginning and ending, life and death, we cannot factually state or debate the existence of Heaven, or God, physically, but many believe and would state that we can FEEL the presence of God, spiritually.
As animals are curved into our own dimension - example - look at a dog wanting to be man's best friend - wanting to learn about its master, wanting to be next to him, wanting attention, we also are curved into the dimensions above us.
Man no matter his beliefs seems to have a built in desire to know what is ABOVE us - who is God, what is God, many persue those desires, and many do not - but its hard for me to believe ANYONE has never contemplated it.
God, the creator, the divine being - whatever you want to call Him - I believe has all of the dimensional properties we have and 100x more.
Just as an ant cannot understand why or how we operate the way we do - I believe the ways of God - are beyond the BEST of our understanding or comprehension.
So like you said SO MANY PEOPLE get caught up thinking they have no know everything in order to believe - when in reality, it only makes sense that if there is a greater power that capable of setting all of this in motion - more then likely we would not be able to understand much of it, and would only be able to catch a glimpse of in "our own language."
Whatever Genesis 1 says - I believe is only symbolic to our own understanding - God did not put on his overalls - clock in to work, and start building. How do you build a universe? Or how does one set in motion intelligent design of a universe, of a planet?
So many people want to just quote GENESIS and simplify creation - you cannot simplify creation - you cannot understand creation, we cannot "CREATE."
But maybe what was written thousands of years ago was about the maximum on what we can understand of creation, the rest to us, is a mystery, and will remain a mystery. Fun to talk about, but why put that much stock into something that will have no intelligent return? Gotta be a line drawn.
Cool theory though I think.
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 9, 2011 19:35:37 GMT -5
Simon, I am not ignoring you. I've been off for a while. Trying to catch up. Good question. I need to think about that one for a while.
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