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Post by Michael Wells on Apr 6, 2011 17:32:01 GMT -5
This is the best discussion I've heard! No judgement involved, and reasoning behind your beliefs. This way, we can have different beliefs (believer or non believer) and make sense at the same time. First off, every believer and non believer has asked the same question "is there a God" in some time in their lives. I urge others to "believe", not because someone told them to, but because real relationship and truly searching.
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 6, 2011 20:05:29 GMT -5
Rick I want to answer your question about new things not happening and I believe new things are happening all the time. Were cycling through the US life span right now and its almost over as far as I can see. We havent backed our money up with gold since 1971 and the average life span of a country without backing is about 40 years. Too bad everyone fell into this big family and relationship thing and forgot about our country. Ive always said chinas rivers are toxic and the water can kill you. But after they suck us dry for money, unless they just use us to live on, than they will just shut our power down and Maybe even move over to the land of the free. that is a perfect example of things that change. And they have changed because of religion. Right now China has their people believing just a little better  . As far as non-religious changes, im not saying its true but pangea probably happened? The history of the world has been people falling into these belief valleys and just riding along until the big man on top gives it up or the people take him over. This is starting to interest me. Dan, you may have to say that again. Not really understanding what you are saying. I don't know anything at all about pangea. Gonna research that as soon as I can find time. Just a dumb redneck here. No college education. I love to read John Wilson's stuff but it's WAY over my head. Do get enough of it to know that he is a believer though! Simon is a smart dude too. I think he will be good for this discussion. I look forward to a little debate with him as well. Always looking for a challenge !! |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 6, 2011 20:08:43 GMT -5
Simon has been my greatest "adversary" in debate.
Engin comes in a close 2nd only because he copy and pastes so much.... Lol
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 6, 2011 20:16:02 GMT -5
Wow. Wickapedia is a really cool sight. Gave me a real quick over view of pangea. Starts out a little rough for me. 600 million years ago..... How in the WORLD (That we are trying to figure out how it got here) do they have a CLUE what happened 600 million years ago? That takes us immediately back to carbon dating and the other "Scientific" stuff that I don't believe in to start with. I think that John P. made a good point that the more we learn (Supposedly), the more we realize that what we once thought was right, was actually wrong. I also (Like Robert B.) believe that there was a world wide flood and that the Grand Canyon could have been carved out in a much shorter period of time than what the scientists believe. I have read (Can't believe everything that you read), that there were sea shells found at the top of Mt. Everest. This (IF TRUE) would highly support that there was in fact a world wide flood. How else would they have gotten there in large quantities? Again, I think that much of what we DON'T BELIEVE about creation comes from the false numbers that we get from carbon dating. If you throw out the fact that you THINK that these bones were this old or the world was this old, it makes other things much more believable.
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 6, 2011 20:29:18 GMT -5
Here's a quick question for you guys.
WHAT IF.......
You turned on the news tonight and all over CNN, all they talked about was a new way that had been found to date bones and the like? Everything that they had believed before was wrong. By all indications the world was actually now found to be a little over 2000 years old. (Give or take a little). The oldest man/woman was now determined to have been around for only a little over 2000 years.
In the only other "Breaking News", a model of the Grand Canyon had been built and after completely submerging it for 40 days and 40 nights, it was determined that the run off effect could have caused a hole this big to have been carved into the ground in a very short period of time. The Grand Canyon was no longer millions of years old!!
The highest point on the Earth was then determined to have a large collection of bones (Peoples and animals). It was now determined (By scientists) that it is very likely that the Earth was probably totally submerged at some point in time.
My question is....
If your so called SCIENTISTS suddenly gave you these facts, would your mind suddenly begin to wander if all the things that I have been saying could POSSIBLY BE TRUE? Would you have even a 1% thought that what I had said COULD be true? If so, then you are allowing a SCIENTIST, a person with just a good THEORY to determine what may be your eternity.
Let's hear what your answers are to these questions!
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Post by Joey "TANTRUM" on Apr 6, 2011 21:00:12 GMT -5
no evidence of evolving? Darwin? lol if food stamps stoped right now people would adapt/evolve to work how is it that every race new/old has its own religion? scientist/Indians/Romans/Greeks/Muslim? same things every where a way of explaining everything little thing what ever it takes to comfort you for the days you are alive till the day you die people believe more religion on their death bed its what you make it there are 100 different types of Muslim/christian ism/scientist...ism the problem with the big bang is no matter how many time it bangs is what started it period......... no one can answer it done! if god created everything no matter how long it took him 3 days 4 days 100000000 days why is the bible better thin muslim? i sleep much better every night knowing that i went to bed with a smile is that so wrong?
also about carbon dating it has been relitivly accurate about many things the reason it has problems with mt st helens is cause it is a volcano earth shifts rocks move we all know diamonds take forever yet most of them are around old dead volcanos? you make a diamond in a couple thousand years and ill believe in jesus
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 6, 2011 22:18:06 GMT -5
Well..... It can be answered.....It has been answered..... You just choose not to accept that answer.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 6, 2011 22:25:18 GMT -5
Good stuff
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 7, 2011 3:07:50 GMT -5
my question is : is there a guarantee that a scientist would be a honest person?
this is an era ,we know that
1.religious spokesmen are not honest.
2.politicians are not honest.
3. social workers and humanitarians are not honest
4.policemen are not honest.
5.Judges are not honest.
6.media reporters are not honest.
every thing is business!!
then how can we expect a scientist to be honest or a statistician and researcher will be honest? they also can very well be laborers in different businesses.
i have plenty of examples in medical research reports for questioning the honesty of the researcher. In 2008 they will say one product is the best drug for a disease [which they claim after 10years of study]. after 3years once their patency on the product expires ,some new researcher will declare that the same ''best drug'' is very harmful and has to be banned . and the government will ban it by the time the patency period expires.
then they come up with new drug and claim as the best.
and remember we may be using that harmful drug on our own body or on our own parents's body thinking that it is the best available. and after 3years we are told it is harmful ...
the scientist say that is science ... it is evidence based ..it will change for ever... lol it is our fate...
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 7, 2011 5:32:24 GMT -5
We simply don't believe in something that can not be proved. You totally believe in something that can't be proved and that makes us right period.... sorry for the six day seven day screw up, i was gettin s.h.i.t.ty drinking beer  We believe that logically and philosophically and even physically God and his existence is clearly and easily proven to be real and true. You simply have dismissed the evidence from your court. Afterall He left his fingerprints at the scene... |
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Post by Mat Helmer on Apr 7, 2011 7:29:29 GMT -5
Sure you can only believe what you believe. But when comparing absolutes, truth determines right and wrong. If I used me an engin as an example... Saying I believe Jesus is God. Engin believes Allah Is God. Then I wouldn't have said one of us is 100% more right than the other...... Though I believe that to be the case.... There is that philosophical and theoretical possibility that we are both wrong and there is no God at all. But in my example with TK One of us is unarguably undisputedly 100% more right than the other. Who/what decides which is right? Truth. Absolute truth. Well the absolute truth is that Engin is 100% more right. Allah = God. Yahweh = God. God = God. Jesus = Jesus. Mankind has put its own emphasis on Jesus at the First Council of Nicaea. |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 7, 2011 7:53:17 GMT -5
So then you are the judge of what is absolute truth?
Hmm.... Even I haven't made such an arrogant claim.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 7, 2011 7:56:40 GMT -5
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not. 6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 9 There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, tothem gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 7, 2011 9:22:28 GMT -5
Sure you can only believe what you believe. But when comparing absolutes, truth determines right and wrong. If I used me an engin as an example... Saying I believe Jesus is God. Engin believes Allah Is God. Then I wouldn't have said one of us is 100% more right than the other...... Though I believe that to be the case.... There is that philosophical and theoretical possibility that we are both wrong and there is no God at all. But in my example with TK One of us is unarguably undisputedly 100% more right than the other. Who/what decides which is right? Truth. Absolute truth. Well the absolute truth is that Engin is 100% more right. Allah = God. Yahweh = God. God = God. Jesus = Jesus. Mankind has put its own emphasis on Jesus at the First Council of Nicaea. Good post. Only the Christians think that Jesus is God. You are correct in that statement. Let's don't go there yet. Stay on track. We are no where near done with the GOD OR NO GOD yet. Let's don't clutter it up with scripture guys. If we can't agree there is a GOD then we can't agree who he is. Take those posts over to the the other thread. |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 7, 2011 9:49:38 GMT -5
Agreed
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. As far as non-religious changes, im not saying its true but pangea probably happened? The history of the world has been people falling into these belief valleys and just riding along until the big man on top gives it up or the people take him over. This is starting to interest me.
