|
|
Post by Anthony Edens on Jun 10, 2011 8:55:11 GMT -5
I only post this because several of you seem to be seekers of the truth.
I encourage you to look up the meaning of the Greek word "anomia". Most Americans only know this word to mean something close to "sin" or "iniquity". A popular verse containing this word is Matthew 7:23.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you workers of anomia!’
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Jun 10, 2011 8:57:15 GMT -5
Not abolished.
Fulfilled
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Jun 10, 2011 9:01:49 GMT -5
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wilson on Jun 10, 2011 13:17:20 GMT -5
Exactly. If we are saved by our own works, then Christ died for nothing. (Paul) |
|
|
|
Post by John Wilson on Jun 10, 2011 13:23:24 GMT -5
I only post this because several of you seem to be seekers of the truth. I encourage you to look up the meaning of the Greek word "anomia". Most Americans only know this word to mean something close to "sin" or "iniquity". A popular verse containing this word is Matthew 7:23. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you workers of anomia!’ I believe that if a person is living by the Law, they are not living in Christ, since Christ came to fulfill the Law. His blood paid for our sin and we are not bound by the Law. Secondly, unless you were born Jewish, the Law was never given to you. The Law never applied to Gentiles, which was a serious point of contention that caused a terrible falling out between Paul and Peter. The Law stands. "Not a jot... shall pass away..." You are free to live by the Law if you choose. But if you do, you will be judged by the Law since you have chosen the Law over salvation through Christ Jesus. That's my understanding based on scripture. |
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 13:33:37 GMT -5
Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Jun 10, 2011 15:20:33 GMT -5
The entirety of the law is a prophecy of the coming of Christ.
From the very beginning.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Edens on Jun 10, 2011 15:44:34 GMT -5
The Law never had the power of salvation. It showed (s) us how to live a Holy (set apart) life. I have been taught "Jesus died, so now we no longer need the law" my whole life. So I certainly don't want to cheapen what Jesus did for me when he died on the cross. That scripture in Matthew has always worried me. Only recently has it been explained to me and made sense.
(Verse 17) 'Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil.
(Verse 18) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
(Verse 19) Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:17-19 - NKJV).
If it is no longer applicable, then why would Jesus tell us to teach the commandments?
Everyone can agree that there are certain types of behavior that God does not like.....can't we?
Well if something was an abomination to God 3300 years ago, why would it now not be that big of a deal to him?
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness {who} utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.
We can also look at natural consequences that result from disobeying certain laws. If the consequences still exist then by reason so does the law, right? For every sin, there is a consequence. Not all sins are 'equal'. Some have heavier consequences. For example, murdering someone has more serious consequences than violating the food laws. But, make no mistake about it, both sins DO have a consequence. You may not die tomorrow by eating the foods discussed as unclean in the Old Testament, but science has proven that certain foods, such as pork or shellfish can and will adversely affect your health, no matter how advanced our technology for keeping and cooking foods. Shellfish eat waste on the bottom of the ocean floor, and the pig's internal system does not allow for the excretion of toxins.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Edens on Jun 10, 2011 15:58:54 GMT -5
Secondly, unless you were born Jewish, the Law was never given to you. Gentile believers (wild olives) are covenant–bound (grafted in) to Israel (Father Abraham’s Olive Tree). Romans 11 Remember that Abraham understood that he was holy (set apart) and behaved differently than those around him even before Moses ever received the Torah. |
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on Jun 10, 2011 16:10:48 GMT -5
The commandments are absolutely applicable.
Here it is in a nutshell. The commandments are there to guide us morally, but they were there to show us how unholy we are.
The law is:
The penalty for sin is the shedding of blood.
Temple sacfrices were not sufficient.
Christ being fully God and fully man qualified him to be that perfect sacrifice for mankind.
Thus fulfilling the law of the penalty of sin.
|
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 18:06:04 GMT -5
Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. |
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 18:12:45 GMT -5
i also believe that the law which we talk about,was given to Jews people alone.according to my belief GOD has sent messengers to every nation amongst their brothers.there had been some differences about the laws according to the behaviour of each nation but basic things had been the same (something like 10 commandments).
|
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 18:21:34 GMT -5
if Jesus who brought God's message,was sent only to Jews then why did he send his disciples to gentiles to inform the message? if the first Christians were Jews then were they not responsible to keep the law? and did the disciples not keep the law and separated themselves from Paul who according to his own testimony saw Jesus,about this matter?
|
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 18:30:47 GMT -5
and if Jesus send his disciples to gentiles (Paul was not one of them - before his ascending to heaven) then why did disciples reject Paul's way about the law (unless gentiles recognised the law)? did Jesus not give his word to disciples that holy spirit would guide them? if they were guided by the holy spirit then who Paul was guided by? when Jesus prayed to GOD for disciples to be ONE with them everyone was witness of this.so if disciples were hypocrites as Paul called them then does it mean that GOD rejected Jesus' prayer? or perhaps Paul was not on the right path?
please answer by your own mind instead what was taught to you.these questions belong to me and it just came to my mind while reading this thread.all my questions are asked within respect and good intention.
ps.i go to bed and i will be able to read this thread tomorrow night as i go to another city early in the morning.
|
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Jun 10, 2011 18:46:59 GMT -5
The Law never had the power of salvation. It showed (s) us how to live a Holy (set apart) life. I have been taught "Jesus died, so now we no longer need the law" my whole life. So I certainly don't want to cheapen what Jesus did for me when he died on the cross. That scripture in Matthew has always worried me. Only recently has it been explained to me and made sense. (Verse 17) 'Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Verse 18) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Verse 19) Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19 - NKJV). If it is no longer applicable, then why would Jesus tell us to teach the commandments? Everyone can agree that there are certain types of behavior that God does not like.....can't we? Well if something was an abomination to God 3300 years ago, why would it now not be that big of a deal to him? Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness {who} utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers. We can also look at natural consequences that result from disobeying certain laws. If the consequences still exist then by reason so does the law, right? For every sin, there is a consequence. Not all sins are 'equal'. Some have heavier consequences. For example, murdering someone has more serious consequences than violating the food laws. But, make no mistake about it, both sins DO have a consequence. You may not die tomorrow by eating the foods discussed as unclean in the Old Testament, but science has proven that certain foods, such as pork or shellfish can and will adversely affect your health, no matter how advanced our technology for keeping and cooking foods. Shellfish eat waste on the bottom of the ocean floor, and the pig's internal system does not allow for the excretion of toxins. you are outstanding Anthony.i think the letter of James has the answer.Faith and Works are the answers.without faith works are nothing but without works faith is not proven.i think the strength of the faith is proven by the amount and importance of the works WHICH ARE DONE BY CLEAN INTENTION.any work without the intention to please GOD is not serving to the purpose of our existence on this earth.there is a very thin and dangerous line between being a faithful servant of GOD and a terrible hypocrite.JMO. |
|
