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Post by Chris Kaufman on Aug 26, 2011 15:41:28 GMT -5
A very low budget movie, but definitely raises some interesting questions. Watch it and let me know what you think. A lot of the stuff is pretty self explanatory, but for some reason was omitted from the "media" and 9/11 Commission Report. I do have to say, even though we all know it won't happen, that it'd be nice to have a REAL investigation into 9/11, the Iraq War, and Afghanistan....
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Aug 26, 2011 23:40:17 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Aug 30, 2011 9:36:32 GMT -5
WOW! I'm surprised. I figured I'd get raked over the coals for this one, but I was curious what other people would think after seeing all the evidence. Also I was curious if Engin had heard anything about this since he knows so much about Israel's "dirty deeds". Best case scenario, Israel knew what was going to happen. Worst case, they were directly involved or behind it.  In the video it talks about "The Lemming" effect. Where if you repeat something enough times, it becomes your truth. Which made me wonder when I ask people why they love Israel and why me MUST defend it, they usually don't have an answer, or at least an answer in their own words. |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 30, 2011 9:46:30 GMT -5
I have thoughts and opinions. And I'm pretty sure engin and I have discussed this privately.
But its not a public conversation really.
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 30, 2011 10:39:37 GMT -5
I think another reason you won't get many people to bite is because "zionist" has become a loaded buzz word, usually associated with jihadists and people wearing tinfoil hats. Unfair, but that's what happens when select groups latch onto words and make them a derogueratory term used to attack an opposing viewpoint, ala "neocon" "teabagger""truther" "birther"...
Here, you have "zionist" and "9/11" all in one sentence. The question presupposes a conclusion.
The way a question is framed tends to drive responses more than anything else.
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Post by Kyle Fitzpatrick on Aug 30, 2011 10:44:33 GMT -5
chris -
great info. i love mowing over all the 9/11 evidence which far outweighs any amount of official "excuses" that our government gives us. unfortunately, there are alot of closed minded "good ol' boys" who have so much blind faith in our countrys leaders that no amount of proof will ever sway them. they are a dying breed. the fresher generations are all waking up thanks to outlets such as infowars.com and blacklistednews.com. the information is out there. unfortunately, and especially amongst most of these "good ol' boys" - if it's not on hannity or the o'reily factor, it may as well not have happened at all. sad, i know. but the truth is rising, brother! and yes, israel had prior knowledge and was involved on several fronts. it's painfully obvious. to deny the evidence is to embrace ignorance. but for some, it's easier than using their brain for a change. keep spreading truth, chris!
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Post by Michael Wells on Aug 30, 2011 12:20:23 GMT -5
Good post Kyle.
I'm not sure who all knew, but to have our country's BEST to investigate what happened and obviously cover many things up....., I know who DID know and wish I had more faith in our leaders. Power and money... When you've got an endless supply of money, what's left to grab/keep? More power at all costs
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Post by Bill Arnold on Aug 30, 2011 14:36:44 GMT -5
Chris - I plan on watching that video when I get the time. Thanks for posting and bringing interesting things on the table for discussions. I'm one of those people that has faith that our government will ultimately do what's right. Call me crazy. Sometimes they do what's right because it's the right thing to do, and sometimes they do the right thing because they're afraid they'll get exposed doing the wrong thing. But all in all, I'm not a big believer in huge Hollywood-style coverups that go on - simply because it would be so hard to contain.
I have to say that I have a whole lot more faith in our military and our special agencies - FBI, CIA, NSA, etc, than I do in our politicians. Why? Because politicians have to manipulate to keep their jobs - the FBI, CIA...simply have to do a good job! And our military does a good job because they believe in freedom and our way of life.
We have a number of problems in this country - and many are the same that have been here for ages - we just simply are more aware of them because of the internet.
Problem 1: We have politicians who are allowed to make rules that selfishly serve themselves. Whether they enjoy free healthcare, pensions, expensive trips, private jets, illegal housekeepers who are paid under the table, and many other things that PERSONALLY benefit them...or those that push for special things that will win them votes in their own district/state that will keep them in a job for another 2, 4, or 6 years. This is a huge problem that needs to change. Taking federal money so your home state can fund a cowboy poetry event, using a private jet because you're so important, sending pictures of your junk to young girls who are star struck - I'm sick of how perverted (sexually and morally) many of these clowns have become - and we allow it.
Problem 2: Conspiracy theories have always existed. If you go against the grain, you're a nut. Take UFOs, for example. If we believe in UFOs with little green men, we are idiots. And if we believe that we're the only ones in this universe out of 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems, then we are also idiots, and closed minded ones at that. You can't prove a negative, but so many people try and make their point because others can't prove that something did not happen or does not exist. Bigfoot exists because you can't prove that he doesn't. Sirhan killed Kennedy because you can't prove 100% that he didn't. Our problem is that we will always have disputes over the truth, because we will never be able to prove a negative. But people go crazy fighting to be right...in fights they will never win.
Problem 3: Our two party system was created as a brilliant idea - because if you have two people with very opposing viewpoints, it stands to reason that two people or parties working in good faith toward a solution, will eventually get tired of arguing and agree to meet in the middle. I want a white car - you want a black car. Eventually, let's agree that we can both live with a tan car. But anymore, our two parties seem like they don't care about meeting in the middle, so they hold their ground, make little or no headway toward a compromise, and there's NO trust in one another because of Problem 1. They are out for themselves and primarily interested in winning votes! Now our two party system is frequently gridlocked because the motivation to work toward a common goal is gone. Our politicians, once elected, believe that they ONLY have to cater to the beliefs of the majority party that elected them. Wouldn't it be great if they remembered that they are elected to serve ALL Americans? But that wouldn't win them a majority of votes. Our two party system needs help - but again, Problem 1 is standing in the way.
Problem 4: Our media is LAZY. They don't fact check, they sensationalize, they insert their own biases. I have little use for any of them. I will tell you that I'll watch Fox over MSNBC any day, but I understand the difference between a news report and an opinion show. How many times have our reporters and other media spun a story that sways the public? Too many to count. Walter Cronkite was a staunch Democrat. But you wouldn't know it to listen to him. He read the news and didn't insert his beliefs. Dan Rather lost his job because he reported the infamous letter about Bush's military situation and took responsibility for not having checked the letter for authenticity. It's a shame it cost him his career - he probably would not have made that mistake twice. But our media rushes to get a story out, and is never called on it. And why do newspapers and television stations and Hollywood actors and comics and others who have the public's attention, get to give their political opinions? I couldn't care less what Brangelina thinks about the upcoming election - but they sway a lot of young, corruptible minds. Our media needs to clean up their act and be journalists - not political towelboys. And our actors should act - and our comics should stick to telling fart jokes.
Problem 5: Our reputation in the world's eye is in the toilet. Most countries envy us for the opportunities we have, but hate us for a number of reasons. Our athletes act like spoiled children, and the whole world sees it. Our politicians make a mockery out of our system, and the whole world sees it. We stick our noses into places we shouldn't, and the whole world sees it. We run out of money, and print more...and the whole world sees it. We play by our own rules and hold other countries to standards that we won't even consider for ourselves. I'm not surprised that when 9/11 happened, that other countries silently (and some not so silently) felt we had it coming. It's like watching the school bully fall off his bike. You can't help but grin a bit. 95% of us Americans are good people - we're loyal, we're honest, and we're compassionate for other human beings. But the other 5% make the news 99.9% of the time. Problem 5 could be helped if we would do more humanitarian things around the world. How about instead of helping to topple Libya, we put those resources to helping Ethiopia get a better water system? I'd be happy if every year, we helped a different country with bettering the lives of their people. (I'd also be happy if we did something about the growing number of lazy people in this country who feel so entitled, and don't care where the money comes from to support their a$$es.)
We have lots of problems, and I like the fact that you started this thread Chris. It makes you think and it makes you put things in perspective. I can't control the government, nor can I expose worldwide conspiracies, but I can live the life of Bill Arnold, and do the right thing, vote, raise my son, be a good person, and admit when I screw up. And maybe, just maybe, others will want to live their lives right as well - and then it can become an epidemic, allowing the 95% of the good people to shake the other 5% and get them to wake up or shut up.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Sept 14, 2011 20:37:35 GMT -5
Bill, have you had a chance to watch this yet?
I guess YOUTUBE conveniently removed it on 9/11. I guess it's happened quite a few times, and the guy was super pissed. I really think he's onto something here.
He's not talking about all the normal "Truther" crap, but just looking at who is responsible. He actually talks about how the "Truthers" are counter productive to the REAL truth.
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