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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Aug 23, 2004 14:41:54 GMT -5
Since when? Wasn't there going to be 1 World? thats what was said last year after Ottawa.
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Post by simon on Aug 23, 2004 16:34:55 GMT -5
Frankly I am not buying the unification for Olympic inclusion BS, I can tell you for a fact that there are many sports that have multiple organizations yet they are in the Olympics, the only difference is that there was only one qualifying event/process for being on the Olympic team in your sport, is that unification or a function or presentation. Martial arts is a prime example, there are hundreds of organizations for each of the Olympic styles there are several “National, International and World championships held each year, yet they are in. Some people would have you believe that the IOC is advising us on how to market, name or other wise improve our sport while they sit back and wait for the two WAF’s to unify, I think this is nonsense. Say they do unify, then what, I could create another world organization, claim I am “the” entity and the IOC would now have to wait for my group to align with the other two? What about the WWC they are the oldest World event in the sport, just because they don’t have a team qualifying format why should they not have to align into the one group as well, what would prevent the WWC from changing to this format, holding it’s own nationals inviting the other countries to do the same, then start holding the world event in various countries?
For me to wrap my head around it I have to break it up into a couple of different things:
The current status of the WAF: as far as I know the Fred Roy WAF will have it’s World event in Japan in 2005, and Das has nixed what he explained as an unauthorized overture of unification so at present it would require a new Das supported or Das removed unification attempt in order to even consider a unified worlds, maybe something will happen at the respective worlds this year, maybe something has already been started at the 2004 EAF’s, who knows. There is as far as I know no current deal in place that details the terms by which a US National team will be selected for reasons I have posted many times on the AAA board, and why should there be considering as of right now there is no unification so trying to make one National team is a mute point. Key point: To the best of my knowledge Mr. Endo was submitting his bid with the caveat that these were a unified worlds.
The IOC: I would seriously question the effort being made to truly take the sport to this level, I think it sounds good if you are trying to convince people that there is some additional reason to push for unification, but there is still a very long row to hoe even if you did become unified. I am not going to question the validity of the correspondence made public, written by Mr. Schaap of the IOC two years ago, maybe he has the latitude to dictate such a requirement at will in order to make sure a sport is not going to unravel once recognized, maybe it is just a blow off letter, or he was sick and tired of being approached by both sides of armwrestling each claiming they are both the rightful ruling body of this sport, I am sure the guy was not interested in presiding over our dispute. Regardless, I have little doubt that a person with enough funds, one not even currently involved in either world body could get this sport into the Olympics, why, because I do not buy the unification bit, it is not consistent with the other sports that are already in, the requirements dictate that you must be able to show that the sport is appropriately participated in, it does not say you have to be the controlling entity of all of that participation, it needs money and organization, not solidarity, the cost of drug testing is an issue, but does it really say how much drug testing is being done at what level and at what events, I can say with pretty good certainty that they are not drug testing at several of the martial arts national events, much less air rifle or kayaking, now I am sure they did test for the Olympic team tryouts in those sports but probably little else.
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Post by simon on Aug 23, 2004 16:41:30 GMT -5
moot not mute, man I ramble just too fast  |
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Post by Chris Coletti on Aug 23, 2004 17:06:11 GMT -5
There are many Little League's and one World Series...there are many different swimming and track leagues but one Olympics. It is not the fault of the respective bodies in the US. It is the incompetence of the two World bodies. Pointing fingers within our bounderies will just take the attention off the true problem. We have World leaders who don't know what the hell they are doing. The sooner they go and someone else gets put in charge the sooner we get in.
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Post by Christopher Myers on Aug 23, 2004 17:16:58 GMT -5
Simon,
As always your logic is uncontestable....but the real question remains .... what now...We are men of means .... meaning that many of the armwrestlers are business owners. I have often thought if we pooled our resources we could form a conglomerate where the whole would be greater than the sum of the pieces.
We could easily pool the most serious and the most affluent and do what is needed to be done. I elect you Simon president ....and now I will swear my allegiance to you. Take the ball and run with it . Make some research make some plans. get some draft ideas and I will solicate others to join.....will you....that really is the core question......no one says yes whan asked that question..... I mean what I say though ...start the war and I will be a good soldier and there are many others I know of who feel the same ....who are waiting for that person to start the revolution
Christopher Myers
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Post by Denise Wattles on Aug 23, 2004 18:54:05 GMT -5
As of now there a two "WAF" World's scheduled in Japan in 2005. One by the World Armwrestling Federation and one by the World Armsport Federation. Both being held in Japan by different Japanese Armwrestling Associations. The World Armwrestling Federation, under the direction of Fred Roy and Mitsuo Endo. The other, World Armsport Federation under the direction of Mr. Das and the All Japan Armwrestling Federation. (see www.worldarmsportfederation.org/reconciliation.html) Denise Wattles |
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Post by simon on Aug 23, 2004 19:29:17 GMT -5
One must consider what we think we know about this situation, in my estimation there is a big difference between the statement, “if we unify we will get recognized”, and “you guys are so F’d up that you have two different groups each claiming they run the whole sport, why would we consider you for recognition.” My point is that I really do not believe that IOC recognition is hanging upon unification, there fore what does getting into the Olympics have to do with them? Frankly the EAF is a powerhouse of a group, and they are unified, I don’t see any reason why that core group could not approach the IOC on behalf of the sport, if all it required was a unified group and they are the largest portion of the armwrestlers in the world, I don’t believe that every country in the air rifle was simultaneously competing in said sport all under the rule of one org, with no competing orgs when they were granted recognition, someone led the way, then other countries or groups reached out and said we want in, all of this could have easily happened without unifying the various international organizations. I use the air rifle because it amuses me so, but I know many sports were not completely unified and they still are not, not at the level we are discussing trying to do with armwrestling.
Sure we could blame the heads of the WAF, but you are a business man and you know how impossible it is to make anything happen by committee, nothing gets done because there are so many competing concerns and agendas, have you ever read the minutes of a WAF congressional meeting, it reads like the transcript of a Jerry Springer episode, arguing and fighting, impertinent comments and wild off topic tangents, the people that really want to make something happen endure a great deal and ultimately they only have but one vote each.
I have often said that the best thing armwrestling can do for itself is to stop worrying about the Olympics, I get choked up and pissed off as much as the next armwrestler watching something as grand as the Olympics be trivialized with silly little games while we sit home with something I see as worthy of an Olympic sport, regardless, if we can grow this sport into a well recognized professional sport for the good of the sport, then doors will open for us, continuing to believe that if we can just shake hands and cross our fingers behind our backs long enough to make the IOC believe we are together we can get in just does not seem to be getting us anywhere, “keep doing what you have been doing and you will keep getting what you have got”.
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Post by STEVE PHIPPS on Aug 23, 2004 21:36:46 GMT -5
Christian, I agree! ;D But I had just watched a special about the Olympics that had modern athletes trying to duplicate the same events from the first olympics. They had them running around with leather thongs on. Think it was on PBS. Saw more white butts than I wanted to, but it made my wife smile.  So as a result I have this vision in my mind of getting back to the basics and I sure don't want to see all you guys armwrestling in the nude.  I know I sure don't want to be up there in the nude. |
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Post by simon on Aug 23, 2004 22:11:17 GMT -5
In re reading my post, I want to make clear that my comment about the WAF meetings is in no way an attack on anyone that represents any country there in, only that it is complicated and clear direction does not appear to come easily.
Mr. Myers, I have contimplated your comments a great deal, first thank you for comments on my post and the nod, may I compliment you on your proposal, it is quite a thought provoking approach, the pullers taking their destiny into their own hands in a meaningful manner. I am going to sleep on the subject a bit before I respond.
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Post by Christopher Myers on Aug 23, 2004 23:15:08 GMT -5
Simon,
Re: Words of Wisdom
« Reply #25 on: Aug 20th, 2004, 05:34am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEOPLE WHO WAIT FOR DESTINY TO GET WHAT THEY THINK THEY DESERVE
SADLY ENOUGH
ALLREADY DID
CHRISTOPHER MYERS
2/25/03
This statement applies here.... we the armwrestlers are suffering from sheep disease ...which is the an incurable desire to follow the ass in front of us without looking around or to the sides....No one has trapped us to any organization and what you said is also true we do not need unification to move forward. What we need to do is to stop making excuses and to stop waiting for someone to do it for us.... I did not mean to drop the burden on you but I did it for two reasons ..... 1 you are capable of instigating change 2 to make a point, many people complain waiting for change....never enacting it for themselves.
I hope you do it but if you dont I will forgive you because if I did not I would be a hypocrit for I myself feel capable but just dont know if I have the energy
Food for thought buddy
Christopher Myers
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Post by Bill Cox on Aug 24, 2004 0:54:13 GMT -5
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Post by Andrew Fournier on Aug 24, 2004 1:05:23 GMT -5
I for one, have been involved in a sport as a child that I was promised would be an olympic sport....believe it or not, I was a national champion in rollerskating. ....I in no way regret it, as it was a long time ago.......but, I regret not having the oppurtunity to go to the olympics that I was promised, as I was a national champion, multiple times..........Now, as an armwrestler, I am ready, for my sport, to reach the olympic level, regardless of what it takes....count me in for the revolution.
I nominate Simon for president
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Post by simon on Aug 24, 2004 11:23:34 GMT -5
Chris I will send you a separate email on the subject, I feel a great deal like you do about where we are and I too am not sure if I have the time to lead the charge, to be honest I think the top functioning individuals in this consortium would have to forgo competing for the most part to give this sport its due, which is something I would consider. In my opinion you are very accurate in your assessment of what I believe to be our recent history and frankly I cannot praise you enough for you insight and I am even more impressed that you are willing to openly take a position to support others with a like minded pursuit. Leading is not easy, but the true hero’s are the ones that unconditionally support and pledge allegiance to a worthy cause. I say this to all reading this post, Chris’s statements clearly show me how much he truly loves this sport and we are fortunate to have his involvement. Chris you are certainly exceedingly capable and maybe we can share the endeavor a bit, the first thing I think we need is first hand information, no more spin doctored statements, claims or appeasements, we need to find out for ourselves what it will really take, they are an international organization they are not some private club they have to have rules and processes for everything, I have a hard time believing it is as subjective as we have been led to believe. Because of you Chris now I am newly inspired to get to the bottom of this issue.
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Post by simon on Aug 24, 2004 11:35:23 GMT -5
Andrew I was once the top speed skater in the state of Nevada for my age group, you are too young for roller skating are you sure you don't mean roller blading? ;D Andrew thanks for the nod also, I will tell you what I am working on right now is I am going to formulate a request and research a proper contact within the IOC, sure it may seem like this has already been done and I will welcome anyone’s advice but I am going to try and find out for myself what is really required and subsequently what we have to do to seriously be considered, and if they tell me that the two WAF’s have to unify, (not that I will take that answer for the only solution) but I will come back on here state exactly that. |
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Post by Christopher Myers on Aug 24, 2004 12:18:51 GMT -5
Simon,
I will lead, I will share leadership , I will follow leadership. I will do whatever is best for the sport of armwrestling or whatever my fellow armwrestlers desire of me. If I had to stop competing for the greater good of the sport I would... ( and not to try and make myself look good ) I love armwrestling... but I am not Brzenk ...or am I destined to be a future Brzenk... If I serve armwrestling best trying to get involved in the politics then I will do so....... But like you said ....like I said......Talk is cheap.......Lets either do this or stop crying about it ( not meant as an attack to anyone in paticular )
Both organizations are corporations and they are always possibilties of control changing hands if we have to pool our money together and buy them so be it . Corporations are bought sold and assimilated everyday in the business world I dont think it would be any diffrent here. Also like you said do your research maybe a new one could be formed and buypass the old. I want to make it clear I am not trying to get in a pissing contest with any other Org. I just want progress and I am willing to take action to get it
Christopher Myers
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I know I sure don't want to be up there in the nude. 
