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Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 10, 2005 0:55:47 GMT -5
nut bag becuase of her beliefs?
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Post by josephsirois on Feb 10, 2005 0:59:20 GMT -5
Well, lol, that's up for grabs, Ryan. I don't like to come down on people too hard for their religion or philosophies. She's a sweet girl but she won't so much as watch rated R movies or drink soda. This is related to her religion, but who knows what her actions would be without it?
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Post by Andy Souliere on Feb 10, 2005 11:51:55 GMT -5
Here's a trivia question.
Who got lost in a cave, ate wild mushrooms and started his own religion?
That was just one of the reasons he started his religion.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 10, 2005 12:43:29 GMT -5
mmmmmmmmmm.........not sure andy.
Joseph there not allowed to drink caffine. But they own a soda company. There not supposed to consume tobacco but the grow it. There not supposed to commit adultery but in their soda comercials they have brittney spears half naked. I dont have anything against her. But she needs to realize that Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light, she dont need to be bound up by that. He also said that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him becuase what go in through the mouth comes out agin. But its whatever comes out of the abundance of the heart that defiles a man.
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Post by josephsirois on Feb 10, 2005 14:34:27 GMT -5
Yeah there are a lot of things they do that seem pretty odd to me, but then again if I was born into the religion it would seem normal.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 10, 2005 15:11:09 GMT -5
true. Until you started searching for truth.
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Post by simon on Feb 10, 2005 15:15:58 GMT -5
OK to the best of my knowledge the Mormon’s do not own a major soda company, they may own stock and I do know that they have in the past owned large regional distributorships of a major soda company, so the commercials with Brittany Spears have nothing to do with the Mormons, they have no control over it. They are not allowed any stimulants hence why no caffeine.
I grew up in an area and a state that is measurably Mormon, and even as a teenager I was very interested in their lifestyle, Mormon behavioral requirements in the US are very well detailed, and they live by a logic that if it is not detailed as inappropriate then it is ok to do, (within the limits of social decency and or state or federal law). For an example the Mormon teenagers were given pamphlets detailing inappropriate sexual behavior, they were quite graphic, it detailed how tongue kissing was a simulation of intercourse and was not allowed, however lets just say that some other more significant sexual activities were not detailed in the pamphlet subsequently they were viewed by many of the Mormon teenagers as being ok. The stories I could tell if this were only guys on here and of course I was not such a gentleman. The non Mormon teenage boys were reading the instructions on Mormon codes of conduct and were looking for loopholes to make our cases to the Mormon girls.
I have learned that internationally those that follow the Mormon religion do not necessarily succumb to many of the seemingly concerning issues that the Mormons may have here in the US.
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Post by josephsirois on Feb 10, 2005 15:26:39 GMT -5
Oh to be free from such shackles
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Post by STEVE PHIPPS on Feb 10, 2005 20:35:17 GMT -5
Ryan,
Mormon's are christain and in fact worship Jesus Christ as their savior.
The Christain world in general accept mormon's as christain as well. That is why the graph show's mormon's as christain.
It is only a very small group of people like yourself that seems to be very judgemental and states that " Mormon's are not christain" based on your judgement.
I guess I could be judgemental and say you are not a christain as well because you do not seem to live the "golden rule" of treating others with respect and love.
I make very few comments on this board about religion toward you, because I feel it will fall on deaf ears. But I felt I needed to at least respond to your statement which is not based on truth or the general belief or understanding of the christain world in general for the benefit of others that may read your post and assume that you are right because no one said anything to counter your statement.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 10, 2005 22:45:32 GMT -5
im sorry Steve it is not a christian religion.Mormonism is closer to satanism than it is christianity. They sort-of acknowledge Jesus as Savior. They believe that his blood only covers certain sins that it doesnt atone for all sin. If you disagree with this please explain what brigham young wrote here. And why the need for the blood atonement doctrine which was written by Joseph Smith.
Blood Atonement in Mormon Fundamentalism
"In the 1990's Blood atonement is alive and well. It is a wide spread belief. Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon Church, publicly preached a doctrine called "blood atonement." Although one might think that the name of this doctrine came from the atonement of Jesus on the cross, the truth of the matter is that it relates to people being put to death. Brigham Young explained this in a sermon given on September 21, 1856:
"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.
"I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them....
"And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.
"It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit....
There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Deseret News, 1856, page 235)
On another occasion Brigham Young made this chilling statement regarding a person's obligation to spill the blood of those who committed serious sins:
"Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, 'shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?'
"All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant....
"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....
"This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.... if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind."
(Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, February 8, 1857; printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 219-220)
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Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 10, 2005 23:08:22 GMT -5
Steve please answer these following questions if you dont mind.
Do you believe Jesus was the brother of Lucifer?
Do you believe God the Father is/was a man?
Do you believe that the african race is a result of the reproduction of demons?
Do you believe in the blood atonment doctrine?......If not why is it taught in the mormon church/temples. Such as by Bringham Young , Joseph Smiths Successor?
Do you deny the records of new york that state Jospeh Smith spent time in jail for witchcraft and conning people out of money?
Do you think caffine will send you to hell?
Please explain to me why or how this is a christian religion.
Do you belive Joseph Smith rewrote the bible?
If so why did he do that and who gave him that authority?
Do you believe in the judgement you will stand before Elohim, Jesus and Joseph Smith?
You ask me if i am obeying the golden rule? Which rule is that i follow the bible. "do unto others ....."
I do, and therefore i welcome you to challenge me and my beliefs.
The golden rule i go by are the greatest commandments as Jesus said To love the lord your God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.
I have much love for you steve if i didnt i wouldnt say any of this. According to the bible the mormon religion is a cult and awfully close to satanism. Therefore i have an obligation to inform you of the truth they obviously dont teach you at church or in their family values commercials.
They do not accept Jesus Christ for who he is and what he has done. Maybe for what they teach you he has done. But it aint what the bible teaches.
as far as a small group of people comment. That aint true many people just dont know how to tell you the truth. I for one am not scared. If publicly christian denominations accept the mormon church it is becuase they are extremly uneducated in the word of God. As the majority of the church today is. Also heres a scripture for ya
Luke 12:14. For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many claim to be christian but there not. They dont have a clue.
Also could explain to me Galatians 1:6-9 and how this does apply to Jospeh Smith preaching another Gospel.
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Post by STEVE PHIPPS on Feb 11, 2005 1:49:42 GMT -5
Ryan,
I am not going to take the time, nor do I have the interest in trying to answer the list of questions that you have copied from an anti mormon book. I can tell you that most of what you have posted is a list of half truths and info that has been twisted to make the point of the person who wrote the book.
Contention is not of the Savior and you are not the ultimate decision maker of what is truth and what isn't. Your attitude of I am right and you are wrong, frankly does not sit well with me and I am not going to waste any time trying to convince you of anything.
My testimony of Jesus as the Savior fell on deaf ears. Your reply was that I am wrong. As I've said in past posts, what I have posted is for others that may be reading this post, in an attempt to at least show that we "Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" do not believe the lies you are spreading as truth on this board and I hope others do not believe what you are posting as well.
Again I ask, show some maturity and respect for others and their beliefs. Your off the cuff remarks almost make me laugh they are so unbelieveable.
Others have tried to point out that your approach is incorrect and will not work. You are not making friends by being so negative and attacking others beliefs. I would give you more credit if you posted things based on your beliefs and understanding, (Like Frank Bean said) instead of copying lists of things that you get from a book and I believe have given very little thought as to the source or the agenda of the person who wrote it.
Knowledge of so called facts from a book and intelligence are two different things.
How to win friends and influence people doesn't seem to be part of your agenda and I'm not sure what you are getting out of all this negative posting.
I will not attack your belief in Christ or anyone's belief in something that hopefully makes them a better person. But I have posted from time to time to make a few positive statements about my believe and ask you to stop your negative posts.
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Post by Andy Souliere on Feb 11, 2005 6:49:34 GMT -5
Ryan it was an old joke in bible study (Baptist), that the founder of the Mormon church, while on the edge of decision of creating his own church, got lost in a cave and ate some mushrooms. He then had a vision of god.....blah, blah, then the world had a new religion. Now please don't take this serious, I was just sharing an old joke. I realize that some will find no humor in this, but, I guess you had to be there.
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Post by Steve Kirlew on Feb 11, 2005 7:39:16 GMT -5
Ryan, In answer to the Blood Atonement Doctrine.
The practice of the Blood Atonement was practiced in the days of Moses, because the civil and ecclesiastical laws were administered by the same hands. Noah, who had the "everlasting covenant" with God, and now had a fullness of the gospel, was commanded, "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, by man shall blood be shed; for in the image of God made he man." (Gen 9:6) Paul taught in Romans 1:25-32 that murder and many forms of sin "are worth of death." Hebrews 5:9 tells us that Christ was the author of eternal salvation unto "all them that obey him" and yet when we "sin willfully after we have recieved a knoledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins." (Heb 10:26) A sin of murder is a direct contradiction to the will of God, and it makes it necessary that we have a personal 'atonement' for these things. If it were not necessary, the Lord would not have commanded it of Noah, who did not live under the law of Moses. ;D
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Post by Steve Kirlew on Feb 11, 2005 8:03:45 GMT -5
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. If you would like to learn more about the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints please go to www.lds.org or www.mormon.org. By the way the official name of the Church is; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I don't want to get involved in this anymore! Stephen
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