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Post by Bill Collins on Jan 8, 2005 18:45:25 GMT -5
With a great deal of respect to all promoters & armwrestlers, some time ago I mentioned that I chatted with Nick about his events (Gladiator) and the unprofessional logistical approach pertaining to his armwrestling objectives. He advised me that the two member staff would give me a buzz about the events. I finally chatted with project lead Jay Carlisle not once but several times. I come to realize, Jay has some very tough shoes too fill, if they’re going to complete the proposed championships.
My personal option; Can they pull off 50 events in 50 States by September? Not possible with out logistics! Can they put up the prize money for all 50 events as advertised? Jay is taking one event at a time and is putting 100% of his efforts to succeed and will not advertise an event if he does not have money in hand. Will there be a Hummer and 100,000 cash to the overall championship winner? Jay does not have a hummer and 100K his back yard, and per his boss (Nick) there will be, before the grand championship event.
A series of events like this is too good to be true and being optimistic is normal. Jay has 5-10 events lined up and as mentioned (per Jay) money in hand. I feel Nick started off wrong (50 events in 50 State in 9 months) he should of announced one event at a time with an objective to cover all 50 States.
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Even if they have 5-10 events and no grand prize that’s better than nothing and it can be easy money for some of you. There was a lot of unanswered questions why, what, when, & where. Nick expresses his attention in an aggressive domineer and realizes that he is not an arwrestling promoter. In his profession you have a whole different approach who, what, when & how, you’re dealings will go down.
Some say he’s not doing it for the love of the sport, who cares, if he putting up the cash, go get some of it. If someone tells you their doing armwrestling events, only for the love of the sport, try convincing me! If they want a big ass Billy Bob or corn feed Jimmy Joe to be the champion “Bring it On”. We (armwrestlers) know if a bet is placed on an armwrestling table who will be the king of the ring? It seems all to fetched, this huge money event pops up out of know where, and people who’ve been in this sport for years, never heard of the promoters. If Jay can knock down one event at a time he is promoting the sport.
I personally would love to see all of these events surface as were in a new era of exposure. Jay is setting up an honorary board as advisors and is very serious accomplishing his obligation. With money in hand, I will be of assistance to the board and help Calif and Nevada get some of their cash.
With this in mind you have the options to pay the huge entry fee of 275.00 & win some $$$ or be optimistic and let this opportunity pass you up. Worst case scenario no pay out! All armwrestler can pull together and implement a large scale law suit and have an armwrestlers delight event.
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Post by Jeff King on Jan 8, 2005 22:38:29 GMT -5
If Jay is just being hired to administrate these as it looks because Nick doesn't know about but wants an armwrestling event, he's got a HUUUUUGE job ahead of him. There is a risk that if things don't go as well too it'll swing right back on Jay. GOOD LUCK JAY! I'm very hesitant about things like this and dealing with such a situation as I've seen and dealt with people who want a tournament but think it's something other than armwrestling is. (as in they watched OVER THE TOP a few too many times and think it's all like that and simple. Sorry it's not!) There's a lot that goes into running ONE tournament that even the pullers who haven't ran a tournament don't realize let alone some guy from pro wrestling. How is armwrestling meant to scout a new pro wrestling champ too? Totally different sets of athletic skills. Also if there have been any inquiries about how they went about obtaining their sponsors there's no response.  Rule #1 Get everything set and upfront. So what about it? Rule #2 Start small, too many people want a mega super event the first time but this often leads to as big a crash out of the gate. Start small, build establishing something then grow, instead of putting all the eggs in one basket. I don't pretend to be an equal promoter to Dave Devoto, etc. but I do have a decent amount of experience running tournaments over the past 10 years here in Ontario and am the Ontario Armwrestling chapter VP and coach as well as armwrestler. Also, everyone is aware of certain people wanting giant events and running them but not coming up with the $$$, most of the time at the hands of someone who is uninitiated in the sport hiring an experienced person in armwrestling to do it for them while hosing them and all the competitors while heading out of town fast saying "Oh well, I didn't get the result I was hoping for so....." How can they expect a certain result while not knowing anything about the venture? A $275 entry fee and $30 spectator fee? Not realistic to expect a big entry turn out costing that much and how can you expect to charge spectators that much to see something they likely know nothing about with the $30 admission. It's ok for them to charge that to order a pay per view or ticket to a big event because in wrestling or boxing or ufc you know what you're going to see. Sadly, at this time armwrestling is not at that level. (or strap wrestlingas it seems. Wait, isn't "the strap match" an old wrestling gimmick match? Yes. :-)) Anyone remember Wahoo McDniel or Chief Jay Strongbow?) Most of the time these type events aren't sanctioned because they don't see it needed BUT if there's any legality issues after you're screwed! "Was this run by an accredited organization? If so, Who?" "Were the officials qualified? Yes? What and where and how?" "Who ran the event? Are they an armwrestling sanctioned organization?" There's something known as duty of care in injury cases and they will ask that if something would happen in any event. Was every precaution taken to prevent it? How do they determine the ability of a potential competitor to enter? Limitations? Are they fair and without prejudice? Waiver signed and what does it say on it? Such a situation has happened before and depending on the answer to the above questions determined the court ruling quite definately. I may get criticism for these opinions but that's fine because been here/done this and the source will be considered. -JEFF |
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Post by leonard on Jan 9, 2005 0:16:55 GMT -5
A waiver cannot release you from negligence and if the officials do something not normal and customary for the industry then they and the promoter are liable.  |
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Post by Jeff King on Jan 9, 2005 1:34:33 GMT -5
That's right. "Was every precaution taken to prevent it?" is key here. If they are negligent they're not taking all percautions and therefore they should be accountable and actually injury doing armwrestling under proper rules and qualified officials like yourself is not as common as people think. But as we all know accidents do happen in all sports and sometimes no matter what we do we can't prevent that.
-JEFF
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Post by Bill Collins on Jan 9, 2005 11:59:30 GMT -5
Hey Jeff,
Speaking for my self, I’ll respond too some of your concerns/comments.
As mention, Jay has some very tough shoes too fill and if he attacks one event at a time with money in hand, some of these events will/can surface. Any armwrestling promoter knows that logistics is the key to success and running an event is not a cake walk.
JK: How is armwrestling meant to scout a new pro wrestling champ too? Who cares if their putting up the cash go get it. If his attentions are to find the next pro wrestler there are some pretty big armwrestler that can fit into that category.
JK: Also if there have been any inquiries about how they went about obtaining their sponsors there's no response.
Again who cares how they got their sponsor, when I hand out $$$ at my events armwrestlers didn’t care how I got the $$$. Their always happy to take the cash.
Your rules are valid, but than again the logistical approach as mention in my last posting was not the best way to set the pace.
JK: Also, everyone is aware of certain people wanting giant events and running them but not coming up with the $$$.
I agree 100% every promoter dreams of that big event and I’ve seen first hand the “hit and runs” as you mentioned. It a crapting feeling getting burned, again as mentioned per Jay “money in hand” if Jay does not have money in hand he won’t put his neck on the line to be slapped off. Who knows after the first 5-10 events this adventure might come to an end.
JK: A $275 entry fee and $30 spectator fee? Not realistic.
Right again, I’m a firm believer charge a little less and your capture a larger returns. But if they put up big $$$ some armwrestler will pay the 275.00 I’ve seen armwrestler pay a hella more that that for a big money event.
JK: Most of the time these type events aren't sanctioned because they don't see it needed BUT if there's any legality issues after you're screwed.
Not sure what you’re saying! These are sanctioned from Gladiator wrestling
JK: Was this run by an accredited organization? If so, Who?"
You have to understand their accredited organization is wrestling not armwrestling. If you expect them to get an approval from an armwrestling organization, it’s time to wake up. This is their event and is its own entity they don’t need approval from an organization.
JK: Were the officials qualified? Yes? What and where and how?"
Bill Cox is the head for the referees, should I say more!
JK: Who ran the event? Are they an armwrestling sanctioned organization?
Does it matter if they are an armwrestling sanctioned organization? NOT! They can go solo as far as I care; anybody can have/run an event with out being an armwrestling sanctioned organization.
JK:There's something known as duty of care in injury cases and they will ask that if something would happen in any event. Was every precaution taken to prevent it?
This is probably the most valid question you asked!! With Bill Cox as their head ref/trainer and a professional at what he does, these basics should be covered.
JK: How do they determine the ability of a potential competitor to enter? Limitations? Are they fair and without prejudice? Waiver signed and what does it say on it?
The potential competitor is anybody that has 275.00 for an entry fee, no limitation all done by weight. With the staff Jay has chosen being fair without prejudice is without a doubt.
LH: A waiver cannot release you from negligence and if the officials do something not normal and customary for the industry then they and the promoter are liable.
I couldn’t of said it better my self.
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Post by Bill Cox on Jan 9, 2005 15:22:53 GMT -5
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Post by guy on Jan 9, 2005 15:28:23 GMT -5
Bill
And everyone is paying $275 and $30 RESPECTIVELY?
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Post by Jeff King on Jan 9, 2005 15:32:20 GMT -5
With Bill Cox involved then so is the IAF. Bill's a good person and knows what to do and what not to.
The big point about where the sponsors come from is 1 Are they in fact involved and not just said to be and 2 on a more positive note, if they have an avenue in sponsorship that works that the armwrestling community hasn't explored yet maybe we can learn something helpful. That's why someone should care about it.
Also mixing pro wrestling and armwrestling raises a few things, again different sets of skills that may or may not cross over and also pro wrestling is about "the look" and how someone gets their character across and while armwrestling has their share of that, wrestling, although super athletes no doubt, is scripted and pre determined. Armwrestling is not. So what do you do if they find this guy off the street who may very well have the look and the talk they want but gets slammed at the armwrestling event that is supposed to find a new superstar as Jay stated in an earlier post? Then what? It would be very tough to promote this super human looking person after he just got it handed to him by a very mortal looking person right?
I think the biggest skepticism for all is this thing coming out of nowhere with all these big promises of giant prizes and cash. We've all been bitten or burnt by things like that before so twice shy when you see something like that again.
The first event in the qualifiers is key on how this will go for the rest of the events for sure!
Just my 2 cents.
-JEFF
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Rule #1 Get everything set and upfront.
