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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 4, 2009 14:23:55 GMT -5
I won't splice hairs here just referencing a generalized opinion
snook has a tournament with open classes right, open left no womens at noon
gary has a tournament with open classes right, open left, women, masters right masters left, novice right, novice left and start and noon
1. which one is easier to run? 2. which one is going to end sooner? 3. which one helps the promoter get expenses covered better? 4. which one are armwrestlers more interested in?
all four elements don't usually fit together
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Post by Karen Bean on Oct 4, 2009 14:25:09 GMT -5
My D$%K is bigger longer and smoother than yours thats what some of these posts come off as. bottom line..most promoters don't make a living at this and do the best to run their event to break even. you need as many entries as possible, you need to keep your costs down as much as possible. to ask for your dream event is to be asking for a bunch of $$$$$ to be pumped into the sport. some of these events need to be cut some slack. you want to armwrestle...you want the perfect tournament...and making demands yet your not doing anything to put on your own perfect tournament. Most tournaments need to be cut some slack All new tournaments need to be given ALOT ALOT of slack (ie the MN thread) NAA also runs smooth and quick because it also has less weight classes. the results are very interesting as in, you want it to run quickly as smoothly yet you won't attend an event if it doesn't have your weight class...so the promoters try to accomodate the puller and get flak because the event is too long. funny this is to no one in general and just giving some thoughts...haven't read every page of this. In my event in particular, I wanted pre entries so I could plan ahead. When I thought it was going to be light entries, I cancelled the extra table..and all the entries came in last minute so I have to do a rush job on shipping the table over. If I go with one table...the event goes long..and you get ticked off but still registered late. interesting. AMEN Gary Roberts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I personally wouldn't/couldn't have used the same analogy but you are dead right. This thread isn't about blowing your own horn, it's about being honest in what could be improved at events.
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Post by Karen Bean on Oct 4, 2009 14:29:18 GMT -5
IMO I don't think the NAA runs smoother and quicker because it has less classes. They start a class and run it to the final four on two tables. Theres no "this class has 4" and "this class has 17" so lets run 2 matches in this class, run through my brackets and run 5 in this one, lets let this class pull a match, now we should go back to the 1st class........All that jumping around takes time. There is no guessing if you'll be up in 3 mins or 37mins. You pretty much know the whole time where you're at. Gary, bigger and longer may help but the smoother part? not sure on that one. Gary, Anthony's right as far as smoothness. Running each weight class down to the final four is smoother than jumping all over the place. Running x matches in the 154's, then x in the 198's, then x in the 132's is time consuming, and hectic. Not to mention the pullers don't even have a clue as to when they can even go to the bathroom! But pretty much everybody runs events down to final four. Don't they?
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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 4, 2009 17:35:23 GMT -5
agreed. I like it that way as well. My points were not in reference to jumping classes. purely number of classes and time takes to run them.
smoother can have many definitions. my point in smoother was regarding...easiness of handling/dealing with less classes overall... (and in terms of waiting around...it could mean not wanting to wait for kids/youth/amateur/novice to get your chance to pull)
but also I am a newbie in the promoter sense, so clearly you guys who have been doing this for thirty years would know more. just to take it a step further if you were to say I had to promote either an NAA size event or ROTN size event VS a Nationals or Worlds...logistically nationals or worlds scare the crud out of me. I don't know how anyone handles that sort of size of event. I would much prefer to handle a less cumbersome size.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Oct 4, 2009 19:03:03 GMT -5
Some people say size matters.
I say it's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.
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Post by David Owens on Oct 4, 2009 19:23:11 GMT -5
IMO I don't think the NAA runs smoother and quicker because it has less classes. They start a class and run it to the final four on two tables. Theres no "this class has 4" and "this class has 17" so lets run 2 matches in this class, run through my brackets and run 5 in this one, lets let this class pull a match, now we should go back to the 1st class........All that jumping around takes time. There is no guessing if you'll be up in 3 mins or 37mins. You pretty much know the whole time where you're at. Gary, bigger and longer may help but the smoother part? not sure on that one. Gary, Anthony's right as far as smoothness. Running each weight class down to the final four is smoother than jumping all over the place. Running x matches in the 154's, then x in the 198's, then x in the 132's is time consuming, and hectic. Not to mention the pullers don't even have a clue as to when they can even go to the bathroom! But pretty much everybody runs events down to final four. Don't they? they definatly do in the south, but personaly I don't like it. here is why. lets say you are in the first class of the day,lose your two matches and then have to sit through hours of tournament without pulling and nothing to keep you pumped and excited about the event. even if you win a couple matches but don't make the final four your day is over. jumping from class to class is hard to keep up with as a director but IMO much more fun as a puller. and I really wish they would not separate the novice and run them till they are threw at least finish the novice classes final four at the same time or just before the open final fours
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Post by John Milne on Oct 4, 2009 19:32:23 GMT -5
wanna stay pumped?
pull multiple classes
WAR NEAC!!!
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Post by Stephen Pickron "Pic" on Oct 4, 2009 20:07:15 GMT -5
I think every tournament should be at "Hooters" ;D ^^AGREED^^
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Post by Ed "Bam" Moehle on Oct 4, 2009 20:21:15 GMT -5
well said rob
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Post by Anthony Snook on Oct 5, 2009 5:05:26 GMT -5
Gary, Anthony's right as far as smoothness. Running each weight class down to the final four is smoother than jumping all over the place. Running x matches in the 154's, then x in the 198's, then x in the 132's is time consuming, and hectic. Not to mention the pullers don't even have a clue as to when they can even go to the bathroom! But pretty much everybody runs events down to final four. Don't they? they definatly do in the south, but personaly I don't like it. here is why. lets say you are in the first class of the day,lose your two matches and then have to sit through hours of tournament without pulling and nothing to keep you pumped and excited about the event. even if you win a couple matches but don't make the final four your day is over. jumping from class to class is hard to keep up with as a director but IMO much more fun as a puller. and I really wish they would not separate the novice and run them till they are threw at least finish the novice classes final four at the same time or just before the open final fours IMAO I go to a tournament to WIN. Nothing else. Thats it. Theres nothing else that is fun, or will keep me excited about the tournament itself. I don't talk usually to anyone until after its all over. After that then I like to meet up with friends that I haven't seen, and have fun. Before all of that, its business and not fun for me. The quickest way for me to have fun, is for the tournament to run quickly......run'em down... Again JMAO.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Oct 5, 2009 17:44:12 GMT -5
New Name
Anthony "All Business" Snook
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Post by simon on Oct 5, 2009 23:20:22 GMT -5
I think a lot of this can be summed up by saying "not being treated like an athlete" I am there for one reason and one reason only... to win, when the event messes with that because I am being treated like the guy at a "$30 guess your weight booth" I am not happy with the event.
I don't mean that the promoters are intentionally mistreating anyone simply there are times where the event itself keeps you from the being able to stay on point with why you went there.
Run poorly Not experienced Poor officials Poor tables Lack of control etc.
Running down to the final four all at once is good for the event but bad for the pullers, again treat me like an athlete, treat me like you understand the outcome of these matches matter to me.
I think the best approach is to run down to the final 4 by table by rounds. Simple example.
Table 1 Round 1 154 Round 1 176 Round 1 198 Round 2 154 Round 2 176 Round 2 198 Etc.
You can run only two weights on a table at a time if need be, but this process gets you time to prepare for your next round, recover,rethink if need be, you are still up and around the table and still on point.
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Post by Dan Thomas on Oct 6, 2009 3:22:54 GMT -5
Simon, I like your idea of running the tourny in rounds with time to recover in between, i especially think this would suit a big 4 day event (like the worlds) where you can have round 1 on day 1, round 2 on day 2, quarters on day 3 and semi's in the morning of day 4 with the finals in the evening, I also think that if you are running a single pin double elimination, no pins should carry through to the next round, every one starts fresh with the quarters becoming a best of 3, same for the semi's and then the final can be best of 5. There is time to rest and ice the arm between rounds and we would likely see better matches in the final stages regardless of any wars that could effect the outcome had the class been run through on the same day. This would be a massive task if the tourney is just 1 day, but would work over 4 days.
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Post by Robert Bishop on Oct 7, 2009 17:49:34 GMT -5
1# THING i hate is when there is a two hour break between semi/finals
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Post by Robert Bishop on Oct 7, 2009 17:51:18 GMT -5
2nd is when there is no left classes
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