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Post by tomnelson on Jan 22, 2011 11:41:00 GMT -5
NUMBER 11 joe gans... my grandpas, grandpa, brother was BATTLING NELSON , Fought him 3 times and won the last 2....all 3 for the lightweight title of the world....AND THE FIRST MATCH WAS THE LONGEST TITLE FIGHT IN HISTORY....look for yourself on line..
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jan 22, 2011 13:16:03 GMT -5
Very interesting chat going on here. Keep it going. :-) My friend, Dave Patton, retired as one of the #1 competitors in world history in the sport of arm wrestling! Just for the record Dave has more wins over me. I believed we battled for 20 years. We dominated our competition and the minority of the time for 1st and 2nd place. You will half to ask Dave, he has a better memory than me. As far a as my achievements they are listed onwww.armwrestlingworldwide.com/wins
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Post by Bill Maenza on Jan 22, 2011 13:20:04 GMT -5
...with Allen Fisher right beside him!
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Post by Alper Cosar on Jan 22, 2011 13:40:21 GMT -5
Engin, i tought about the sample that Dave gave me about him beating John and Roman can not do that. and also about your example about gashevski vs voevada situation. Well here is another twist with Allen beating Roman more than once at his late career. (thinking allen would be stronger earlier in his prime and allen's record vs Dave is written on his post above) Now I am still not saying Dave can beat Roman on todays tables as they are more in favor of a hooker. (pads being close to each other and starting an aw match is easy on hook favoured position- you know this problem as you left the zloty tourney due to this, right?) But if we take todays Roman back to late 80s and have him match with cobra, Dave and Allen of that day I believe it is gonna be hard for him to hook them on old table w/ pads staggered and a few inches away from each other vs today's Waf version. What do you think?
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 13:42:36 GMT -5
i have won 5 WWC title only in 1 WWC event in one of my bad shapes.i should have competed at least 10 of them to win 50 world titles instead of having dog fights against the best of the world in WAF,it would be 10 times easier.
i even won 175 pound class while weighing 135 pounds.i could not place in top 10 at 176 pounds in WAF,while weighing 135 pounds,sad but true..
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 14:02:09 GMT -5
Well here is another twist with Allen beating Roman more than once at his late career. (thinking allen would be stronger earlier in his prime and allen's record vs Dave is written on his post above) Roman pulled 5 weight classes on that day and it was the year that he was still pulling 143s while he pulled 154s and 176s when he lost to Allen (who only pulled 176s) at 176s.when we judge something we need to consider if the athletes weigh the same and pulled in equal conditions or not (such as pulling multiple classes).if both weigh the same and pulled in 1 single class then its an healthy comparison. i say this because 10 years ago (2001 july) Allen visited Europe and i remember him losing quickly to Bogdan Borisenko who took 4. place 3 months (october 2001) later in my class (where i took double golds).i have pulled Bogdan there in WAF and before as well and never ever felt anything from him with right arm.when i knew my next opponent was someone like Bogdan i was already starting to think about the next round for we were in different leagues unfortunately. Now I am still not saying Dave can beat Roman on todays tables as they are more in favor of a hooker. (pads being close to each other and starting an aw match is easy on hook favoured position- you know this problem as you left the zloty tourney due to this, right?) i never said Roman can beat best of Dave,so i do not know what to say.i only claimed Arsen being the best 165 ever in 2007 WAF. since you mentioned Allen then i can show you Gashevski as an example as he met Allen in 2001 PAL event that i mentioned above,he met Allen in 2005 Vegas and 2006 Vegas (he wasnt trained) as well.i believe all were easy matches.Roman is a 154 and under puller.that is why i mentioned Cobra,Zoloev, Arsen, Dave and Gashevski about 165 pullers. But if we take todays Roman back to late 80s and have him match with cobra, Dave and Allen of that day I believe it is gonna be hard for him to hook them on old table w/ pads staggered and a few inches away from each other vs today's Waf version. What do you think? Roman is a smaller guy than other guys that you mentioned,i do not only mean the weight but structural frame as well.so it would be very possible Dave,Cobra and Allen to beat him in their best times.
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jan 22, 2011 14:04:25 GMT -5
Dave Patton was one of the most versatile arm wrestlers in the world. He had off the chart power, strength, endurance and speed! Dave in his prime and Roman in his I believe strongly Dave would come out the champion.
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jan 22, 2011 14:10:55 GMT -5
Get rid of enhancing chemicals in these all these guys, who people say are the best in the world, and let they pull naturally and will see who come out as the #1 puller. I know that will never happen, but I long for the day to see our sport completely drug free!
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Post by Alper Cosar on Jan 22, 2011 14:20:33 GMT -5
Thx for the answer Engin. I am going to UAL II this weekend with Danial. Hope you could have make it, maybe next one as UAL is gettting bigger... you can stay with me in FL as long as you want let me know.
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 14:21:14 GMT -5
people does not compete tournaments by force.if giving glory to yourself when you win then you also give glory when you lose. "i win because i am great,he won because of this and that" WAF winners are tested for doping (which at least proves a month of being natural),anyone else win a title while being tested for doping? self claiming proves nothing in 21. century..
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Post by Marcelo Palacios on Jan 22, 2011 14:21:44 GMT -5
I believe that Roman can destroy a Dave at his prime today, is like Chis Gobby said about Denny Dubreil beating Dave in the 90s then got smash by Roman, Dubreil can go to any tournament in north America today and probably win his classes, BUT I believe that when it comes to lower to middle weight classes the eastern part of the world or Europeans are light years ahead of western side or north Americans JMO...
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 14:23:30 GMT -5
Thx for the answer Engin. I am going to UAL II this weekend with Danial. Hope you could have make it, maybe next one as UAL is gettting bigger... you can stay with me in FL as long as you want let me know. you are welcome Alper! i was invited to UAL but the time was too short to receive visa .it would be great to compete UAL together with you guys. thanks for inviting me my friend.
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 14:46:52 GMT -5
Get rid of enhancing chemicals in these all these guys, who people say are the best in the world, and let they pull naturally and will see who come out as the #1 puller. I know that will never happen, but I long for the day to see our sport completely drug free! Allen, did you not have this opinion before you went to WAF in 2008 (which was a doping tested event)? or you got this opinion over there? Cobra won 1999 WAF in the heart of Russia and then there was no doping test at all.
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Post by enginterzi on Jan 22, 2011 15:01:43 GMT -5
Allen,do not get me wrong.i surely believe that you have been one of the best natural light weights in the world.and i respect you for staying at the top even though you are at your 50s.and you did this by pulling none stop 30 years.
IMO you,Dave and Cobra would have beat Roman in your prime times.all opinions vs opinions,nothing else.i do not know 80s armwrestling while many do not know much about European armwrestling.
i must also agree that you are right about chemical involvement but i do not agree this problem being a matter of only Europe or of only today's armwrestling.chemicals were involved in the past,and still involved.the difference is today is more common than how it was in the past.
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jan 22, 2011 15:10:40 GMT -5
Hi Engin No, I have known and held to those beliefs for a long time. Thanks for your encouraging words. :-) I am a world champion because the LORD had that in His plan for me. He designed my life and that has giving me huge opportunity to represent Him in the years I have been competing.
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