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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 16:54:26 GMT -5
John has my utmost respect for hunting the best ones in anywhere in the world without caring about which organization holds the event.it just shows the courage and confidence of him and this again made him the best ever whose place will not be taken by anyone that i know of today.
Jerry and Travis to step up to Zloty (the best pro event in the world) just shows their courage and confidence ! i am not sure if i will do that or not but whoever will win 2011 Zloty supers will deserve to be ranked no 1 in the world.Pushkar,Cyplenkov,Jerry and Travis (and Bresnan as well?) !!! all in same class !!!
i agree with Neil about supermatches being the best judgement but we need to be realistic to judge the armwrestling world according to it's own conditions.if we wait Devon to pull Denis or Pushkar in a supermatch then it may take even years to see this happenning.
Zloty will be the cage for the monsters and whoever wins will do the greatest job of 2011 !!!
i seriously can not decide about this matter and i need to hear the opinion of the armwrestling world.
these are the top 5 ranked armwrestlers in the world;
1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Gadzimurat Omarov, RUS 4. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 5. Andrey Pushkar, UKR
i was expecting Devon to pull Jerry in this year but again it did not happen.
i seriously do not believe that Devon vs other pullers from top 5 will happen in next a few years.
please share your opinions!
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Post by jamesretarides on Aug 10, 2011 17:28:29 GMT -5
Not unless they beat Devon.
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Post by Fabio Nimis on Aug 10, 2011 17:32:43 GMT -5
As usual, I think it all depends on draws!!
I mean, just an example, if Jerry and Cyplenkov destroy themselves in a war in an early match at the beginning of their weight class, and then Pushkar flashes both of them in a second, IMO this would not mean that Pushkar is the best. Obviously I could make also other examples with these pullers mentioned and some of the other top pullers of the class (like Tim Bresnan) mixed in a different way.
IMO draws are the most important thing to judge besides who wins.
Anyway I think that who will prove to be the strongest (IF draws will allow us to really know it, and I hope so!! ) at Zloty on right hand, would have to face Devon in a supermatch to really determine who the real N.1 in the world is.
I think it's not Devon's fault if he can't travel to Zloty in that period of the year.
So, I would answer "no" to your question Engin, just my thoughts.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 17:34:03 GMT -5
Not unless they beat Devon. what if they never get to pull eachother? should we not consider when 3 of the top 5 ranked armwrestlers meeting eachother in the best pro event in the world ?
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 17:41:07 GMT -5
As usual, I think it all depends on draws!! I mean, just an example, if Jerry and Cyplenkov destroy themselves in a war in an early match at the beginning of their weight class, and then Pushkar flashes both of them in a second, IMO this would not mean that Pushkar is the best. Obviously I could make also other examples with these pullers mentioned and some of the other top pullers of the class (like Tim Bresnan) mixed in a different way. IMO draws are the most important thing to judge besides who wins. Anyway I think that who will prove to be the strongest (IF draws will allow us to really know it, and I hope so!! ) at Zloty on right hand, would have to face Devon in a supermatch to really determine who the real N.1 in the world is. I think it's not Devon's fault if he can't travel to Zloty in that period of the year. So, JIMO I would answer "no" to your question Engin, just my thoughts. but Gary,John,Ron,Karaev and many other greats as Voevoda who won Zloty without needing draw luck, have recorded their names on the Golden Pages of armwrestling history by the victories of the double elimination events. what if Denis or Pushkar wins the Zloty over Jerry..and what if they never get to pull a supermatch with Devon..then how is it gonna be? Pushkar shows up at Zloty,Pushkar shows up at WAF,Pushkar shows up at EAC...these are the events that create opportunity to meet the best ones with eachother. yes John was not competing WAF but was competing all the best pro events as long as he was not injured and the money was good enough. i am not blaming Devon for not pulling the events except Armwars,but it seems like he will never get to pull Eastern Monsters during his career.
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 10, 2011 17:47:17 GMT -5
This is a tough call.
On one hand, you have to beat the best to be the best. Therefore, if they don't beat Devon they can't be #1.
But if Devon does not make himself available to armwrestle. Should he remain #1?
As you have stated about John. He went out into the world and hunted down everyone and this is one of the main things that has impressed you. With that same thinking in mind. If the other ranked pullers want to be ranked #1, they too can go hunt Devon down for the #1 spot.
SO.....IMO the winner of Zloty should NOT get the #1 rank unless Devon is there.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 17:47:24 GMT -5
btw i will not vote on this poll as i am not sure about it and that is why i asked everyone's opinions.
i wish there would be a supermatch which is already set between these athletes and this problem would be solved.
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Post by Scott Wright on Aug 10, 2011 17:51:00 GMT -5
I think Devon wants to pull Denis and Andrey. It seems that Devon pulls for ArmWars and Denis and Andrey would pull for PAL. Maybe these two great organizations could get together to make one of these match ups happen. I wouldn't change the rankings. Devon has beaten to many top guys IMO. I really hope someone can make these matches happen soon!
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 17:53:40 GMT -5
As you have stated about John. He went out into the world and hunted down everyone and this is one of the main things that has impressed you. With that same thinking in mind. If the other ranked pullers want to be ranked #1, they too can go hunt Devon down for the #1 spot.. no it is not the same thinking Bob.John hunted everyone even when he was the no 1 in the world.was Alan Karaev considered the best when John went to Golden Bear in 1998? no! did John continue winning Zloty because he never was the best? did John pull Taras or Oncescu in Europe because he needed to beat them? were Kanai or Arsen considered as the best ones when John traveled to Japan and Turkey to hunt them? Alexy Voevoda had lost to Travis in 2003 and in that condition John went to Zloty 2004.Alexy became best there. so John hunted everyone who wanted to become the best.the man actually challenged the whole world by being the lightest overall best in the world.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 17:56:26 GMT -5
btw if we try to discredit the tournaments then we need to discredit minimum 95% of our history and it's Legends.
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Post by P R O T O T Y P E - A.K on Aug 10, 2011 17:57:29 GMT -5
John has my utmost respect for hunting the best ones in anywhere in the world without caring about which organization holds the event.it just shows the courage and confidence of him and this again made him the best ever whose place will not be taken by anyone that i know of today. Jerry and Travis to step up to Zloty (the best pro event in the world) just shows their courage and confidence ! i am not sure if i will do that or not but whoever will win 2011 Zloty supers will deserve to be ranked no 1 in the world.Pushkar,Cyplenkov,Jerry and Travis (and Bresnan as well?) !!! all in same class !!! i agree with Neil about supermatches being the best judgement but we need to be realistic to judge the armwrestling world according to it's own conditions.if we wait Devon to pull Denis or Pushkar to pull a supermatch then it may take even years to see this happenning. Zloty will be the cage for the monsters and whoever wins will do the greatest job of 2011 !!! i seriously can not decide about this matter and i need to hear the opinion of the armwrestling world. these are the top 5 ranked armwrestlers in the world; 1. Devon Larratt, CAN 2. Jerry Cadorette, USA 3. Gadzimurat Omarov, RUS 4. Denis Cyplenkov, RUS 5. Andrey Pushkar, UKR i was expecting Devon to pull Jerry in this year but again it did not happen. i seriously do not believe that Devon vs other top 5 pullers will happen in next a few years. please share your ideas! This is a very good question ...thanks for asking our opinions on this Engin.. I say NO....IMO The winner should be ranked at 2 Place to become a shot ASAP afterward by any of the given promoters at Devon next!.But not first.....(just in the moment i was finish with this text i saw that Fabio Nimis has posted a similar view) ;D ;D.. It seems that i have a italian soul-mate that i don´t know that well til today. Here are my reasons why i think that way: 1- Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally (No matter how and why).And in fact never lost in a battle after that day (No matter in witch frequency he fights even though we all wish a higher fight-frequency and over-sea work too) 2- just because Devon L. can not show there for private reasons.You/we should not penalize him by taking the Nr.1 Spot away!. We should remember that No one of the above list did that kind of Job to John B. Before and after that epic gathering in that way.that should give Devon a tremendous Super-Champ credit. 3- I don´t know what people like to see because of sympathy or similar emotions, but if we look clinical enough at the last matches of Devon, he really dominating at the end when it comes to facing and armwrestling his opponents!.and he is not running away from nobody.He should stay as Nr.1 in the ranking til someone prove it otherwise 4- Armwrestling is growing good lately and the opportunity for the following Match after this Hardcore Zloty between a so called undisputed Nr.2 and the Nr.1 (Devon larratt) will draw big attention and once done in a Super-Match by our Super-Promoters out there, there will be NO doubting for anybody caused by draw..fresh fights and whatever... this are my main reasons so far... I hope i could help a little with this view..and am really interested to hear available opposite reasonable opinions!. BTW: @fabio Nimis: please don´t type that quick... ;D...hahahah BTW 2: You guys are to quick by writing i see now..ooohhhh i guess maybe i am to slow with my English..Are you guys hitting always that fast on the table also?? ;D...hahahaha ...I will be faster at the table. ...you better believe it...hahahah A.K
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 10, 2011 17:58:36 GMT -5
I was not trying to compare John to these men. What I was trying to say was. If anyone wants to achieve anything, such as being Ranked #1, they should go out and get it, not wait for it to come to them.
Devon is the current #1. If anyone wants to be #1, they should contact Devon and go to him.
JMO
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 18:06:51 GMT -5
1- Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally (No matter how and why). AK,when did you read that i said because i have utmost respect for John i said this.please discuss with sense. 2- just because Devon L. can not show there for private reasons.You/we should not penalize him by taking the Nr.1 Spot away!. We should remember that No one of the above list did that kind of Job to John B. Before and after that epic gathering in that way.that should give Devon a tremendous Super-Champ credit. not sure,John has told me that he was injured and both Devon and Neil knew about but still pushed him to pull.in a similar condition Denis also easily beat John in 2010 Zloty .John's table pullings with Devon before he pulled Arsen at 95kg made me believe that John in a heavy & good condition would beat Devon in a best out of 3 supermatch.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 10, 2011 18:11:57 GMT -5
I was not trying to compare John to these men. What I was trying to say was. If anyone wants to achieve anything, such as being Ranked #1, they should go out and get it, not wait for it to come to them. Devon is the current #1. If anyone wants to be #1, they should contact Devon and go to him. JMO and Devon would organise a supermatch at his back yard? Devon is the current no 1 by opinion and he could have ranked no 2 when he lost Arnolds and then the Lithuanian guy who beat Don who beat Devon,would be no 1 and then Denis who won Zloty over the Lithuanian would be no 1 and then John who beat Denis would be no 1 then Omarov who beat Denis would be no 1. there is no system because there is no world calender.
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Post by Fabio Nimis on Aug 10, 2011 18:12:56 GMT -5
but Gary,John,Ron,Karaev and many other greats as Voevoda who won Zloty without needing draw luck, have recorded their names on the Golden Pages of armwrestling history by the victories of the double elimination events. what if Denis or Pushkar wins the Zloty over Jerry..and what if they never get to pull a supermatch with Devon..then how is it gonna be? Pushkar shows up at Zloty,Pushkar shows up at WAF,Pushkar shows up at EAC...these are the events that create opportunity to meet the best ones with eachother. yes John was not competing WAF but was competing all the best pro events as long as he was not injured and the money was good enough. i am not blaming Devon for not pulling the events except Armwars,but it seems like he will never get to pull Eastern Monsters during his career. I hope that for 2012 spring or summer it won't be such a huge problem for Mazurenko to arrange a Vendetta match between Cyplenkov or Pushkar (if one of them wins Zloty) and Devon, or for Neil to arrange an Armwars supermatch between Jerry (if he wins Zloty) and Devon. You are absolutely right Engin saying that nothing like that has happened so far, but I believe that after this Zloty Mazurenko and Neil will be more interested than ever to arrange something like that!! And it will be really great also if you with your sponsor try to have these pullers in an Istanbul event (last editions were amazing!)!! Devon is always available in spring and summer. So, I believe that next year we could finally know the real answer to all our doubts!!!
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