Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 20, 2012 2:32:49 GMT -5
Hahaha, timeout guys. Hi Troy, I think Jonathon is just trying to underline how important conditioning is in armwrestling, and your average "big" fella (you being Jax from Mortal Kombat in this example ;D )... will not stand a chance against someone who has devoted him/herself to this discipline, even a lightweight. It's elite, it makes armwrestling very special, and many pullers are protective of that status. Jonathon was probably just blowing off some steam on a Friday night after a long, hard week, hence the spelling errors etc. no biggie. Anyways, onto the topic:I think most would agree that athletes are using these substances to gain an advantage in some area of training and preparation. Therefore athletes who do not, won't gain an advantage through these substances. (Obvious enough) If you gain an advantage in any way possible using as opposed to not using, then very simply the users need to be divided from the non-users for fairness' sake! Users trying to bypass the system either to gain "unfair" advatage in open competition or trying to avoid stigma are really displaying gross unsporting behaviour. That should stand to be a fact. If it wasn't then users gain absolutely no advatange from substances, which I'm sure we all agree isn't not the case. And this means ANY advantage whatsoever, whether it be in recovery between reps, sets, or separate sessions over an identical athlete (physically) with an identical lifestyle and nutrition who does not use.
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Post by michaelmeador on Oct 20, 2012 9:41:43 GMT -5
This does not show how he really looks like because the camera is in a wrong place. I must say this, even if I get kicked off the board, I do not give a f..k. I do not understand it when most people state he was on huge amount of stereoids and so..., without even having seen him or knowing him. No one can disagree that the guy is a beast, he beat everyone when we has 75kg, when he was 78 kg, he even beat 85kg worl champion and 100kg world champion Jon Onchescu at 78kg. Why wasn't no one saying that he was on something when he was 75-80kg?? He beat everyone when he was 80kg, 85kg or 90kg (he beat John). And after all this most people talk about him being fake based on nothing...I know many guys lost their hair in a couple of years, dont forget, caucasus is very different from the USA. Stop it, simply admit that the guy is born for armwrestling and is just a nice and cool guy. I am sure NONE of you, taking about him like that can tell him that in person. Some of the previous posts are bullcrap. Zoloev is now beating everyone under 90kg, being only 80kg and I am sure if he gains weight and becomes 95-100kg the sam people would say he is on stereoids, this is funny. I do not have anything against people who use but You Sir are a moron, it has nothing to do with him winning at a lighter weight, it has to do with him gaining a 100lbs of muscle in a few years. Next time read what you are fixing to post...
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 20, 2012 10:51:38 GMT -5
This does not show how he really looks like because the camera is in a wrong place. I must say this, even if I get kicked off the board, I do not give a f..k. I do not understand it when most people state he was on huge amount of stereoids and so..., without even having seen him or knowing him. No one can disagree that the guy is a beast, he beat everyone when we has 75kg, when he was 78 kg, he even beat 85kg worl champion and 100kg world champion Jon Onchescu at 78kg. Why wasn't no one saying that he was on something when he was 75-80kg?? He beat everyone when he was 80kg, 85kg or 90kg (he beat John). And after all this most people talk about him being fake based on nothing...I know many guys lost their hair in a couple of years, dont forget, caucasus is very different from the USA. Stop it, simply admit that the guy is born for armwrestling and is just a nice and cool guy. I am sure NONE of you, taking about him like that can tell him that in person. Some of the previous posts are bullcrap. Zoloev is now beating everyone under 90kg, being only 80kg and I am sure if he gains weight and becomes 95-100kg the sam people would say he is on stereoids, this is funny. I do not have anything against people who use but You Sir are a moron, it has nothing to do with him winning at a lighter weight, it has to do with him gaining a 100lbs of muscle in a few years. Next time read what you are fixing to post... Eish! Hi Mike. How much muscle is a guy allowed to put on within the time frame and not be suspected? How much muscle can a man put on "naturally", within a year, say? And another question; are there people walking around that are sure that Denis and Arsen are using steroids, or have used HGH? People will cite acromegaly (Denis) etc. From what I've seen just from young guys at school, university and on the farm, you can get really big and really ripped on an even sub-optimal diet.
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Post by kyledarby on Oct 20, 2012 11:28:20 GMT -5
^^^This is great. Yeah- no
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 20, 2012 11:29:33 GMT -5
and you know this about richard, how? i have known him my whole life and seen the gym work he has done to get him to the point he is. before you go flapping your jaw or should i say fingers you better no what you are talking about. You know you are absolutely right. I've never met Richard, never seen him take steroids or talk about it. I know the guy is a beast when it comes to the gym and training and I'm taking anything away from the guy. But, let's be real. Like others have said, you can simply see it in someone's physique. It's easy to speculate about some athletes but I'm sorry Richard's body has steroid use written all over. I don't mean to sound offensive because I don't know why this would offend him or you. If he takes them, then he can't be offended that we all can see it. If he doesn't, more power to him for showing us all that you can look like that and be natural. I believe the former and I think most guys that spend time in the gym would agree. Hi Michael, I'm not so sure... What are the tell-tale signs? Is he big? Is he strong? Is he ripped? Well I know men that don't even gym hard (though they work hard) and they would never dream of taking these substances, and I bet if they followed a training routine and ate right they would be suspected of using steroids. A guy called Armand Smit was with me in highschool, and he simple worked his fingers to the bone on his dad's farm and had the genetics- he was huge and ripped and had leathery hands. I can tell you, there is no way he would take steroids, he didn't even gym, but you would probably suspect him. He was an 18-year old kid and he looked similar to Chris Chandler a year back, just taller. Frank du Plessis, another monster, strongest man I've ever known, tall as Devon but broader, 8-pack abs like as thick as the front of my fist. This is the kind of man that will give Devon a hard time like Sonny- no armwrestling training. You just find people like this. So, first let's prove what a guy really can look like naturally, then we can take it from there. And, Richard Lupkes seems pretty healthy to me, is there supposed to be some backlash using at some age?
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 20, 2012 11:59:53 GMT -5
Question: Does anyone think that Devon Larratt uses/d steroids?
Sorry for being long-winded, but I've read through the thread now, and nobody mentioned the world's best.
Well, I find it interesting, last year and in 2008, whenever Devon has been heavier (around 248 pounds) you start seeing comments pop up like "Oh, he's definitely juicing". Recently, many mocked a lighter Devon (235) after his tough match with Tractor Bresnan.
Well, I think we can ALL agree that a man as tall as Devon can be as heavy and have as little body fat, and similar strength in various areas. So simply going by looks is not the way to do it, because we have a very natural-looking Devon going around crushing everything in sight.
Don't say you can look at the muscle form/shape, because that is just genetic, and it only changes with hydration.
I see that John Byerly says at the bottom of page 6, and it seems Michael Bluth share his sentiments to some degree, that "if you agree with the methods" etc, go for it. Well I gave a simple reasoning on page 8 why this is unsportsmanlike conduct, and I think it's obvious enough to all of us, and is a major factor in the stigma and why users are reluctant (rightly so) to admit use.
Or are you guys going by looks when you can compare a "before and after" of an athlete and point out just how much he has put on? If some put on less than others, where are you going to draw the line? Devon is acceptable, Arsen aint?
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 20, 2012 12:12:07 GMT -5
Oh dear, those are long replies. I see on John and Engin's Facebook page, a young guy called Derek M. Smith has brought up this topic to which both champions have responded. But what is most interesting is that the guy says that he wants to know if he has to use steroids to reach an elite level, be a medalist at Nemiroff. Indirectly he is questioning John Brzenk on whether he himself has used. John quickly points out the he novice has to be realistic with his goals, and that he needs to enjoy the journey. It's not a win-at-all-costs mentality. A lot of this then comes down to a man's spirit or sense of morals and ethics (pardon me, I took Philosophy in my first year and I still have no idea what that really means). If you smoke, you cannot sit in the non-smokers section. If you don't smoke, you can sit wherever you like. Nobody can fault a natural athlete, a substance (ab)user is another matter. Eventually it's only about how acceptable it is within the organization or society, and then whether you can live with yourself if you do use. You can't answer that honestly without answering to both. John Brzenk has admitted that he has thought about what it would have been like to take steroids, but if you can have legends like Brzenk and Larratt being champion ambassadors for the sport and completely natural, does anyone even need to ask these dull questions?
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Post by troycummings on Oct 20, 2012 12:46:44 GMT -5
omg,steriods in armw? Really? Why,ill ask whats to gain? from most of the videos ive seen,most armw could not win a toe touching competition! so i really dont see the point,but as far as this Arsen guy, ITS LEGAL where he lives so whats the point of arguement? This guy im sure is happy with his choice to use,so you should not let it bother you either,how many of you guys who have posted on this has lost to him? please tell me!
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Post by Joshua Woodhouse on Oct 20, 2012 21:39:53 GMT -5
WOW what a chump
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Post by David Harutyunyan on Oct 20, 2012 21:42:05 GMT -5
Michael Meador,
You called me moron? You are just a f..king idiot, listen guy you do not know me, but yes idiots like you are used to taking about people who they do not know. Listen idiot, he was 80kg in 2012 and is now 100kg, so he gaind 45lb in 7 years, if someone thinks that is not possible to do in a normal way then they have no idea about soprt. What 100lb are you talking about? You, think before writing, I did not offend you, but you offended me for no reason...
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Oct 20, 2012 21:54:34 GMT -5
Lots of dumb dumbs on here... Why do all you pansy fu(Ks refuse to see what is real ? Where is your rationality ? Why is it these guys gain 40-50 lbs or more as adult men... Yet equally as hungry or trained men don't gain 10...? Get off the politically correct d!ck and call a spade a spade
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 21, 2012 0:09:15 GMT -5
Lots of dumb dumbs on here... Why do all you pansy fu(Ks refuse to see what is real ? Where is your rationality ? Why is it these guys gain 40-50 lbs or more as adult men... Yet equally as hungry or trained men don't gain 10...? Get off the politically correct d!ck and call a spade a spade OK RVJ, I usually try not to be a dumb-dumb, but sometimes my IQ slips a little far left of the Bell curve. Now, I remember your bold quote earlier that you said that you guarantee that you make it to the top and stomp a bunch of steroid users on your way there. I admire you for this, I feel the same way about the issue. But, what I am saying is that we really need to establish what a man can achieve naturally before even beginning to suspect a person. 40-50pounds is not that much for a man coming up through his early 20's, coming into his man-strength and mass over a period of 2-3 years, naturally. Isn't it? Now you have to consider that men are not born equal, some are ectomorphs, some endomorphs and other meso. We store fat differently and build differently, use our nutrion slightly differntly. Since this is an open discussion, a non-pro can chime in. What about the quality of the muscle? We've seen smaller/more economic muscles. Of course in armwrestling it's very much about how the different muscles can work together and involve maximum reliance on connective tissue through very dexterous limbs, but I think we all agree with Richard Lupkes when he says that Devon Larratt has some freaky strength for his size, and he is not a small man. Some will claim there is no way Devon is clean. Some merely say he doesn't have enough muscle on that frame to be suspected Engin had something to say about that on his Q&A page. Fact is, a man with Devon's frame can pack on that muscle by the time he is 30 and be very strong, naturally. Devon is pretty unique at the moment, but there are and will be others capable of replicating his form. Did it bother some people in Devon's Youtube "Hook Training" videos that he weighed 108Kgs in August 2010, and then 112Kgs clothed in October of that year? Is that steroids at work? Without that clothing it's about 110.5 Kgs. That's NOTHING for a man with that frame and weight, you can pack on 1 Kg of muscle in 2 months, or even twice that and the rest is fat/hydration. Yet people immediately went "ahhhhh yeah ....roids". Sometimes I think that people just need to be around others who WORK HARD and realize what different genetics are capable of. Rob, if you say that a man "gaint 40-50lbs as an adult" in disbelief then please provide us with some kind of timeframe under which this should be impossible to achieve naturally for ALL body types. THEN we have something to work from. Otherwise it's all guesswork. Now for people that believe like you and I, if Devon is now finally above suspicion, then that is a shining beacon. Who cares about users then? We know it's possible to be the best without roids. And we are going to enjoy stomping them, as you say.
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 21, 2012 0:14:06 GMT -5
Eish! Let me summarize that:
"...we really need to establish what a man can achieve naturally before even beginning to suspect a person."
"...some are ectomorphs, some endomorphs and other meso. We store fat differently and build differently, use our nutrion slightly differntly."
"...40-50pounds is not that much for a man coming up through his early 20's, coming into his man-strength and mass over a period of 2-3 years, naturally." [please provide us with some kind of timeframe under which this should be impossible to achieve naturally for ALL body types. THEN we have something to work from]
"...Devon Larratt is awesome...you should get out more" ;D
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Post by Zach Creel on Oct 21, 2012 0:55:00 GMT -5
Devon also stated in one of his videos that Crossfit was what he attributed going from 220 to 240lbs. I think everyone knows that no workout is going to make you gain weight like that. I do think you can see a huge difference in his size from now and a few years ago, but for all i know it could just be a better diet and different training methods.
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Las Botha
Silver Member
South Africa
Posts: 298
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Post by Las Botha on Oct 21, 2012 1:13:42 GMT -5
Devon also stated in one of his videos that Crossfit was what he attributed going from 220 to 240lbs. I think everyone knows that no workout is going to make you gain weight like that. I do think you can see a huge difference in his size from now and a few years ago, but for all i know it could just be a better diet and different training methods. Sorry Zach, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. First of all, Devon has been 10 pounds heavier in the past, not the other way around as you claim. He was 235 when he beat Tim Bresnan just recently, and I don't mean the cricket player. Secondly, are you then basically saying that you believe Devon is on roids, or was using? Thirdly, that crossfit video was a few years back, and I believe he said, 225 and he went up to 240. 15 pounds in half a year or so is nothing if your body has room to pack that on very naturally with that big frame of his. I think a lot of guys might look at a weigh oscillation of a super heavyweight, and relate that to their class, which would be relatively less, and they don't want to easily believe a man can accomplish that in their limited experience. I'm not sure you mean Zach... But ok ;D
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