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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Mar 2, 2013 23:17:51 GMT -5
This gents... Is discussion time for some ...rage inducing for others... And liberating for me,.......
I feel that at any time in this sport there is an obvious order... It plays itself regularly.. There are MANY varying levels of comp.., No arguments here. There is a gap between the elites and the rest... Sorry to say but it is what it is. Now the truth inside it is that there is a dirty half who are changing amongst themselves ... This is the elite... Elites
Devon Cyplenkov Pushkar Jerry Bresnan And newly added... Chaffee
That's my dirty half... Too bad if you don't like it... I see it like this !!
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Post by Nate Gagnon on Mar 2, 2013 23:26:11 GMT -5
Where's Arsen and MT fall in there?
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Post by John Milne on Mar 2, 2013 23:31:23 GMT -5
Today I would bet that Dave Chaffee would beat anyone on that list.
If you did all the numbers, Chaffee would come out on top. (Larratt still recovering)
One other interesting thing to note.
When Larratt competes he almost always has the inside advantage to back up if his top game fails. He can fall back on his hook and be safe - I'd wager even against Denis (via control of rotator) Larratt would control the inside. However I do not think he would have the inside advantage vs Dave - at least not by a comfortable margin. My point being - IF Devon cannot control the top and is forced to drop inside with the mighty Chaffee it could be trouble for him.
Final note: We're forgetting The Monster. He is clearly extremely hard to beat in any format.
Interesting topic though.
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Post by Tero Lampikari on Mar 3, 2013 0:30:37 GMT -5
From a spectator point of view I haven't seen anyone else on that list except Devon having the top game, strength and endurance to apply the "fishing Mike standing up game" to pin him. Since then Mike has obviously perfected his game more whether one likes to watch it or not.
One thing we haven't seen is if Mike can handle Jerry and luckily some of you are about to see this match soon and the rest of us can listen to the result.
So yes I agree with John Milne about "forgetting" Mike but also understand RVJ for doing so.
Other than leaving Mike out I find RVJ's list of The dirty HALF DOZEN spot on. Maybe, leave Devon out due to rehabilitation and put Mike in and there are THE SUPERS?
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Post by David Owens on Mar 3, 2013 1:47:05 GMT -5
I like this list there is some things I would like to see
Mike Todd vs slightly lower level opponents to see him beat them standing up, could he? I think so but hard to know since he usually statues the first couple rounds. Love MT but not a fan of his main weapon
Jerry Cadorette in a hook with Devon, Chaffee, Tim, John ect, can he hang with them without the press? I saw him beat Lupkes in a hook but only after a couple standoff matches In the press in which Rich hurt himself
My top six would be
Chaffee, I think only Devon and Tim could beat him Devon number one till proven otherwise if healthy Dennis for obvious reasons Tim Bresnan, maybe the best on the planet right now Pushkar Hollywood, only Tim has as many wins over Devon correct?
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Mar 3, 2013 8:31:41 GMT -5
I left mike out because of obvious reasons... I think if the rules get fine tuned he will have to reestablish himself... Again... That's my opinion... As for Arsen... He is great no doubt, I just don't think he can beat those guys... But it's all speculation... It takes a second to change everyone's perspective. We all have seen seemingly untouchable guys go down... Even easy at times... This sport breeds upsets. If we revise this thread in 6 months to a year I promise you for whatever reason... That list will not have the same names on it.
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Post by Scott Wright on Mar 3, 2013 12:35:32 GMT -5
Good list, and I agree with the MT assessment. I think he's a step away from being at the top without dropping down on the table.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Mar 3, 2013 13:25:58 GMT -5
Tim B again THANKS Rob but if you were training you two would be on that list !!!!!!
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Post by Devon Larratt on Mar 3, 2013 13:43:39 GMT -5
I like this list (Rob's) i would just subtract one and add 2 names. I would subtract myself (cause we are talking right arm). Like you said these names can change in 6 months.. I can't beat anyone right now. FOr a CURRENT list.. i am not on it. boo hoo lol, but i will try to get back on it, just lets keep it honest, not there today. I also think you need to have Mike Todd on that list.. no question, about making him stand up and all that - its hilarious. Just beat him. don't ask that he beat you some special way. to me that sounds pretty pathetic. Having had an arm that is fkd up - trust me... if you look at the whole picture it is not an advantage. Mike Todd is an armwrestling stud and needs to be on that list if he is not at the very top of the list (and that is actually my opinion of where he is today) I also think there are probably a few Euro guys that could be added to the list that the lack the north american exposure for us to really get a good feel for who is who, so i will just add one - Gennadi Kvikvinia - think that guy is really bad news, could likely scrap it up with a few on that list for sure. (also think Tokarev is not far off) JMO
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Mar 3, 2013 13:57:49 GMT -5
^^^ I disagree with the mike Todd thing... But it's one of the things keeping the sport from forward progress... Different sets of rules. Per our biggest organization... He can't drop that low, and it's not pathetic to think those matches would be very different had it not been from the initial burn out. It's ironic that his " injury" catapulted him to nigh unbeatable status....I'm not buying it being a handicap at all I just want to play by the rules... I look at WAF... In my mind I don't see him on there... If he competes per WAF rules... In my mind you would see him get pinned more and the speculation cease.... If not... I will be the first to sing his praises.
Gennady and tokarev were guys I thought of as well
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Post by Devon Larratt on Mar 3, 2013 16:23:09 GMT -5
I think looking to WAF as the leading organization is questionable and in my opinion incorrect. Mike has been injured for a loooonnng time.. this is nothing new. In my opinion there needs to be a further shake up of the rules - even under the ARMWARS rule system (which i believe is the best set of rules we have currently) there should be a few mods to further this sport in my opinion.. Elbow foul - your pad your foul. black and white. Break arm position- get rid of both of them (at pro level.. not amateur). Lastly - here is a big one... switch to Arm sumo table - no pads, no pin line (knuckles touch or hold off the table for 3 count). Anyways.. just proposals, but under what i believe is currently the KING format - one on one - 6 rounds - running fouls - minute break - etc.. Mike Todd is the guy to beat, like it or not.. you gotta respect the winner.
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Post by David Owens on Mar 3, 2013 17:43:03 GMT -5
I think looking to WAF as the leading organization is questionable and in my opinion incorrect. Mike has been injured for a loooonnng time.. this is nothing new. In my opinion there needs to be a further shake up of the rules - even under the ARMWARS rule system (which i believe is the best set of rules we have currently) there should be a few mods to further this sport in my opinion.. Elbow foul - your pad your foul. black and white. Break arm position- get rid of both of them (at pro level.. not amateur). Lastly - here is a big one... switch to Arm sumo table - no pads, no pin line (knuckles touch or hold off the table for 3 count). Anyways.. just proposals, but under what i believe is currently the KING format - one on one - 6 rounds - running fouls - minute break - etc.. Mike Todd is the guy to beat, like it or not.. you gotta respect the winner. Like it or not WAF IS the leader in this field and those rules are there for a reason for protect the pullers and prevent a lot of bs, some of the most entertaining armwrestling I have seen has been on the old espn shows and they used the regular rules. You wanna reinvent the wheel, fine. Lets go back to sit down and starting in a hook no pin pads no elbow pads, just pin your opponent! Oh and hold it for a 3 Count! I'm sure the sport would blow right up then. I like a winner just win within the rules.
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Post by Devon Larratt on Mar 3, 2013 18:10:35 GMT -5
its just my opinion.. the future will tell us who was right. no biggy. I am not proposing go back to sit down either not talking about going backwards.
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Post by David Owens on Mar 3, 2013 19:02:40 GMT -5
its just my opinion.. the future will tell us who was right. no biggy. I am not proposing go back to sit down either not talking about going backwards. I am a huge fan of armwars, I do wish a couple things were different like, best of instead of set 6 rounds, I've seen too many matches that were meaningless to believe in the 6 round format. Standard rules except the addition of running foul, no crossing centerline, no dropping into An armbar, no intentionally pushing people off the pad. Just debating by the way, your opinion. Doesn't hurt my feelings
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Post by Devon Larratt on Mar 3, 2013 19:51:01 GMT -5
very good then we continue!
reason i like 6 is cause after the win you can show by how much you have won.. for me that is something i always like to see. also for betting 6 is cool cause win loose tie.
i like dropping to an armbar.. its a great move. kinda been proven to get a win, wish i could do it. its not unbeatable, but it is a great move in the right hands. i also think that pushing off the pad is a nice trump to throw in against an unbalanced puller(example guy dropping into an armbar) these 2 rules are gonna play out more interesting than ever i think in the match comin up with jerry and mike.
Opinions are just that. I base my opinion of Armwars being the future of armwrestling cause i fkn love this sport. I watch it all the time. what am i looking for? matches between one guy and another. in the WAF 110kg finals with Genadi and Wagner that was an awesome match. I would love to watch it over 6 rounds. I just know what i want to see. 2 evenly matched armwrestlers going at it (the higher the skill the better) i don't want them to be injured, or have excuses or be not fresh, etc etc. This is what i want to see, and i think i am not so different form most people. So really, my argument is just based on what i think i would watch more often. there is the future.
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