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Post by Bruce Ronquille Jr on Jul 30, 2013 19:47:43 GMT -5
Only*
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Post by Vazgen Soghoyan on Jul 30, 2013 22:17:36 GMT -5
USAF main goal must be making Armwrestling popular in the country, building strong Team and represent the country in Continental and World Championship. Well, it is same in every country's model. There are many and different ways to build strong Team for representing the country. One of those ways are the Rules. They are the foundation of the rest. Here we started a conversation about a particular rule of participating in Unifieds and getting a spot in the Team. So, what we have now? 1. Athletes, who participate in USAF Nationals win/earn their Team Spot. 2. Athletes, who do not participate ( well, due to different reasons) in USAF Nationals, but request a Team Spot ( if there is available).
The first Group is in it's all rights. No questions. The second Group may fill the empty Team spots and make the Team Complete and stronger. But there is a point here that USAF should pay attention; some "athletes" might think that they are "smarter" , intentionally miss the Nationals and try to jump in later. Also in this Group there might be athletes who missed the Nationals due to really serious reasons that could be discussed on the Board and solved in either way. Something like emergency, wedding, saving an athlete for the Worlds ( Team Coach strategy), financial, etc... . These things need individual solution. USAF has a very difficult task. It must find "the Golden Medium" between these to groups that will make the Team stronger first and give the athletes a chance to represent the country in second.
We had a perfect picture in 2010. The Worlds was in the USA, all athletes were fighting at the Nationals to earn their Team spot.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jul 31, 2013 0:42:13 GMT -5
USAF main goal must be making Armwrestling popular in the country, building strong Team and represent the country in Continental and World Championship. Well, it is same in every country's model. There are many and different ways to build strong Team for representing the country. One of those ways are the Rules. They are the foundation of the rest. Here we started a conversation about a particular rule of participating in Unifieds and getting a spot in the Team. So, what we have now? 1. Athletes, who participate in USAF Nationals win/earn their Team Spot. 2. Athletes, who do not participate ( well, due to different reasons) in USAF Nationals, but request a Team Spot ( if there is available). The first Group is in it's all rights. No questions. The second Group may fill the empty Team spots and make the Team Complete and stronger. But there is a point here that USAF should pay attention; some "athletes" might think that they are "smarter" , intentionally miss the Nationals and try to jump in later. Also in this Group there might be athletes who missed the Nationals due to really serious reasons that could be discussed on the Board and solved in either way. Something like emergency, wedding, saving an athlete for the Worlds ( Team Coach strategy), financial, etc... . These things need individual solution. USAF has a very difficult task. It must find "the Golden Medium" between these to groups that will make the Team stronger first and give the athletes a chance to represent the country in second. We had a perfect picture in 2010. The Worlds was in the USA, all athletes were fighting at the Nationals to earn their Team spot. I could name several (won't because I don't want to embarrass them) who tried to be "smart" and gamble that their spot would be open. Guess what they out smarted themselves and didn't get to go. Nothing to prevent that other than, how bad do you want to go? If you really want to go then you had better come and qualify. Again this is not against the rules heck some countries don't even have qualifiers and just select the representative athletes. As far as WAF is concerned, as long as there are only 2 per class, it is up to the country to decide who comes.
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Post by Jeremy Fraley on Jul 31, 2013 7:46:12 GMT -5
Wouldn't it also be easier to get more of an attendance at nationals if it were hosted in more popular flying friendly city. (Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Las Vegas, etc...) Ive noticed alot of nationals are on the out skirts of big cities which require a car rental and having to drive another 1-2hrs.
Ive been reading alot of people saying costs are to high to travel on the board, hosting there national and or large tournaments in flier friendly cities, costs should be at the minimum flying anyways.
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Post by Robert Drenk on Jul 31, 2013 8:19:57 GMT -5
Great point Jeremy, Reno has a great airport to fly into and the hotel / host site is within 5 min from it. Reno is a great fit for Nationals. In 2012 we held it there with great success, if you didn't make it then you should try in 2014! With Reno we get a great event, tons of support from Harrahs, cheap Rooms for the athletes and media attention from cities like Sacramento! The flights are pretty cheap too. I hope this helps
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 31, 2013 8:25:36 GMT -5
Wouldn't it also be easier to get more of an attendance at nationals if it were hosted in more popular flying friendly city. (Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Las Vegas, etc...) Ive noticed alot of nationals are on the out skirts of big cities which require a car rental and having to drive another 1-2hrs. Ive been reading alot of people saying costs are to high to travel on the board, hosting there national and or large tournaments in flier friendly cities, costs should be at the minimum flying anyways. DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner. SPOT ON. I know that all Nationals events are held based on the package the host submits. Well, maybe it's time for the Executive Board to stop relying on the generosity of others and simply get into the habit of planning Nationals every year. After all, if nobody submits a package they have to pick up the slack anyway. So just do it to begin with. The site for Nationals should always be a a major airline hub, just as Jeremy outlined above. Hub cities have an abundance of hotels and easy highway access for those who drive. Tickets in/out are cheaper. Rather than picking a site where the hotel host will comp the most rooms for the fewest amount of people, turnout would greatly improve if Nationals was cheaper and easier for the great majority of pullers to get to. Raise the entry fees by five dollars to account for the rooms that need to be comped. Nobody will miss the five bucks, but when it costs a grand to get to Nationals instead of $500 you'll only get a fraction of the turnout- as the last several years proves.
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 31, 2013 8:32:05 GMT -5
I can go to Puerto Rico for the weekend for $350. (airfare and hotel)
Just saying.
I'm not spending $1,200 to go to Nationals when I can go to Rome for that. (airfare and hotel)
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jul 31, 2013 8:43:56 GMT -5
Wouldn't it also be easier to get more of an attendance at nationals if it were hosted in more popular flying friendly city. (Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Las Vegas, etc...) Ive noticed alot of nationals are on the out skirts of big cities which require a car rental and having to drive another 1-2hrs. Ive been reading alot of people saying costs are to high to travel on the board, hosting there national and or large tournaments in flier friendly cities, costs should be at the minimum flying anyways. Sponsorship sponsorship sponsorship. Most of the bids for the last couple of years have been with 8000 in sponsorship or above. It is expensive to host a National and without that sponsorship the entry fees would be a bunch above your 5 dollar increase. At 300 entries you would need to take the entry fees to 50.00 per entry to raise another 6000.00 lost in sponsorship, just saying that is a factor in location. Also being in a hub city doesn't always help, we were in Salt Lake City in 2008, a delta hub and the air was 500.00 to 650.00. You just never know. DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner. SPOT ON. I know that all Nationals events are held based on the package the host submits. Well, maybe it's time for the Executive Board to stop relying on the generosity of others and simply get into the habit of planning Nationals every year. After all, if nobody submits a package they have to pick up the slack anyway. So just do it to begin with. The site for Nationals should always be a a major airline hub, just as Jeremy outlined above. Hub cities have an abundance of hotels and easy highway access for those who drive. Tickets in/out are cheaper. Rather than picking a site where the hotel host will comp the most rooms for the fewest amount of people, turnout would greatly improve if Nationals was cheaper and easier for the great majority of pullers to get to. Raise the entry fees by five dollars to account for the rooms that need to be comped. Nobody will miss the five bucks, but when it costs a grand to get to Nationals instead of $500 you'll only get a fraction of the turnout- as the last several years proves.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jul 31, 2013 8:46:23 GMT -5
I can go to Puerto Rico for the weekend for $350. (airfare and hotel) Just saying. I'm not spending $1,200 to go to Nationals when I can go to Rome for that. (airfare and hotel) I should find out where you are getting prices because right now that is not the case. Air to Europe is crazy can't find anything under 1180.00 for just the air no matter where I am going. Been looking because of Poland.
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 31, 2013 9:53:20 GMT -5
Well, Poland isn't exactly cheap to go to and never has been. It's not exactly a vacation hot spot.
But 1180.00 is pretty much the same cost for me to go to Billings, MT for Nationals. By the time you add hotel and rental car it's a pretty good number even if I could have gotten a better deal on airfare. Which supports what I said- when by your numbers I can go to Poland for the price of going to Nationals.
Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix.... all those places cost half of what going to a small-market airport costs.
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Post by Bill Cox on Jul 31, 2013 12:10:16 GMT -5
Well said John. I agree with what you are saying.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Jul 31, 2013 16:43:33 GMT -5
Well, Poland isn't exactly cheap to go to and never has been. It's not exactly a vacation hot spot. But 1180.00 is pretty much the same cost for me to go to Billings, MT for Nationals. By the time you add hotel and rental car it's a pretty good number even if I could have gotten a better deal on airfare. Which supports what I said- when by your numbers I can go to Poland for the price of going to Nationals. Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix.... all those places cost half of what going to a small-market airport costs. I Still don't agree. I have been flying all over the US and the last couple of years the air has been bad no matter where I fly to. In 2010 most of the air into Billings was in the 300 to 400 with a few a little higher, so that is half the air going to Europe when comparing apples to apples. Hell I paid 800.00 to go to Orlando and that is not a small market. 100.00 one way or another is not going to keep someone from coming to Nationals. It is going to be work, training, family, desire for the title, desire to go to Worlds, and last money. JMNTBHO
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 31, 2013 19:30:57 GMT -5
LOL, exactly Leonard. You paid $800 to get to Orlando. So how much do you think it costs me to get from Orlando / Tampa to Billings? Plus hotel, plus car. Let me break out my TI86 Super Duper Calculator.... yep, just as I suspected. Glad I'm not crazy. (I'm kidding with you, Leonard. But the numbers keep adding up like I said they do.)
But you're also supporting the point I made: it's always cheaper to fly to a hub. Orlando is not a small market, it's a premium destination 12 months a year. It is fairly expensive to fly into because of that. I would love to host a Nationals, but I'd never hold it here because of that. Hotels never go on sale and flights are never cheap. God help you if you want to fly to Florida anywhere around Daytona 500 week, Bike Week, etc. It can be brutal.
If I ever host a Nationals I'll hold it in Atlanta or Charlotte for those reasons. Yeah it will be a much bigger pain in the butt to organize rather than driving around my home town, but for the other 300 people who have to travel to the event it would be light years better and way cheaper. That's my point.
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Post by Jeremy Fraley on Jul 31, 2013 19:55:39 GMT -5
925$ to get to poland from clt for nemiroff this year 1 stop
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Post by Vazgen Soghoyan on Jul 31, 2013 20:33:49 GMT -5
To me, it is not about the cost... . And that extra $5 on entry fee doesn't change anything. Armwrestler is ready to pay that $5 if it helps to improve this situation, but we have bunch of "armwrestlers" who prefer not to participate in that fundrising, but they spent $25 on beer afterparty. Poor mentality. This situation will last another several years untill the new generation comes into our sports with it's updated and constructive way of thinking. But....American Armwrestling will be 10 years behind international level. I was at Crossfit Games last weekend here in LA. It is pretty new sports , much younger than armwrestling. But you should be there to see that...!!! Huge Stadium, 30 000 people, even those who came to watch were dressed same as competitors! To compare, we still ask pullers not to wear dirty farm boots and old jeans at.....Arnold Classic! Now you understand the mentality?
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