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Post by Derek Smith on Feb 3, 2014 20:00:15 GMT -5
So i was thinking about all these leagues and where the sport is heading. I feel it should be clear what the community is leaning towards. Please atleast vote so we can see the numbers.
On one hand there is picking one of these leagues and backing them 100%. Blowing up all of their events ONLY and getting some money and sponsors to really notice our sport. Truly UNITING all of us. In the process other peoples leagues may die out and hard work may be wasted. I believe it would draw many more new guys to the sport if there was just ONE league they had to follow with huge entrees and following. A sort of UFC/NBA/MLB/NFL for AW. It would also be a monopoly and you would have to play by that leagues rules and hope they dont lead you astray. You would be banking your time and money on their ideas and leadership. So there are good and bad points i think.
On the other hand there is having more options. Attending different events with different rules. One event in a local gymnasium may have 3 people in your weight class with a $25 gift card as first prize when you paid $30 to enter, then the very next weekend 300 miles away attend at a hooters you can win $200 and free wings for a month. With random leagues flaring up and dying out because nobody will commit to them, a few good events then its on to the next big promise and stars in peoples eyes. You have freedom of choice. You arent owned. You can be the champion of an event with 15 entrees and brag to all your buddies and call yourself a professional. There would be many more tournaments per year. It seems that this is the way it has been. I understand the pros and cons.
I understand not wanting to unite under one logo because they may screw us over..... but they MIGHT blow this thing up. Isnt it worth a gamble for once? worst comes to worst we go back to being divided like always. IMO.
Just been thinking about this. Please vote and share your opinions if you feel like it.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 3, 2014 20:13:55 GMT -5
Listen... All non promoters and people who haven't been investing have been voting unity for a bit now.
The problem is if you get 3,4,5 leagues uniting you are asking them to take a backseat and money... When it's made is gonna go to the head honcho... And they all wanna be head honcho... So no unification or forward progress
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Post by John Milne on Feb 3, 2014 20:17:06 GMT -5
I don't think we can unite under one league. I just don't see how. I like the options. ArmWars has huge tv presence in Europe, PAL pays the biggest money, UAL is doing well in the USA but from what I understand their contracts are very restrictive, the new WAL from Game of Arms fame looks to be rolling now too. A few of the smaller leagues like The Arm Melter have their loyal guys who will continue to back it. Different formats, different rules, different approaches will always appeal to the vastly different reasons guys show up.
I can potentially see one major league perhaps, along with many other leagues but it's a stretch. Not every guy wants to be a contracted pro, a lot of folks pull for the fun of it. Right now, I can't picture ONE league doing it all.
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Post by Derek Smith on Feb 3, 2014 20:22:05 GMT -5
Can everyone pleeease vote so we can see the statistics? Thanks guys.
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Post by Bob Brown on Feb 3, 2014 20:29:06 GMT -5
I think Unity at the amateur level in important. Like chasing the Olympics. For us, its the WAF world title. We should all get along.
But in the pro level. Competition is a good thing. Each league will try harder and harder to grow.
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Post by Derek Smith on Feb 3, 2014 20:30:32 GMT -5
Dont you think its alot harder to grow the events if people wont commit? Where is the money going to come from?
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Post by Mike West on Feb 3, 2014 22:56:17 GMT -5
Derek, there will never be unity, if your talking only one league. There is no way of stopping someone who wants to start a new league or organization if they want to and have the funds to do it. Right now with UAL and the new WAL both of these leagues have the desire and funds to do as they wish, and most armwrestlers will go where the money is at or the competition is.
I really do hate seeing all these WORLD championships popping up everywhere, you wanna be a WORLD champion, go to the Worlds where all the countries are, not just a select few. JMHO
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 3, 2014 23:29:08 GMT -5
I think Unity at the amateur level in important. Like chasing the Olympics. For us, its the WAF world title. We should all get along. But in the pro level. Competition is a good thing. Each league will try harder and harder to grow. This. 10000% Any unity will be under the WAF and it will be Amateur armwrestling. This is the pathway to Worlds. Pro leagues need to be about money and exposure. In fact- all pro organizations need to drop the "WORLD TITLE" amateur hour way of thinking. WAF style armwrestling with ring girls is not "the next level". |
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 3, 2014 23:34:16 GMT -5
I'm not saying world titles aren't good.
Pro Leagues don't need to waste time arguing over who the real "world champ" is depending on which company you support.
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Post by David Owens on Feb 4, 2014 1:08:43 GMT -5
Unity for this country in armwrestling would have been a huge thing 10 years ago when it was possible.
I still think like Bob said at the amateur level its important but not everyone looks at it like that. For instance to tell a WAF world champion that his title is considered an amateur title would probably start a pretty good rant session but it has a lot of validity. For the most part the WAF world champions are the best in the world but there will probably be a time in the near future where this is not the case.
UAL, PAL, WAL, and ARMWARS will all have their own world champions and like boxing or MMA life will go on. The people will decide which one is the real world championship not the armwrestlers or the promoters. Personally I am a fan of all of it because I just love the sport that much.
I do hope that in the future there is more structure on the amateur and lower levels going from city to state, state to regional, regional to nationals and ONE national to go to the worlds but that's probably still a long ways off.
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Post by John Wilson on Feb 4, 2014 8:44:04 GMT -5
Define "unity" first, and then explain what "unity" would mean for the sport.
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Post by Mike West on Feb 4, 2014 9:20:56 GMT -5
David, the thing is as of right now, lots of your PAL and Arm Wars champions are also WAF champions, but as a WAF champion they didn't make any $$.
It seems silly to me to think that because you beat one guy in a SM or UMU format that you are World Champion, you wanna be a World champ go beat everyone at the World championship.
PAL has pullers who are or have been WAF World champs competing against each other, UAL has a small pool of pullers who can even compete for that UAL World title, go where everyone that qualifies from each country goes for that World title.
To me winning cash for your title doesn't make you any better of a World champ.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Feb 4, 2014 10:01:21 GMT -5
That's bad business mike.
Why spend thousands to pull in a giant pool when you can meet up with the very bests for money ?
Unfortunately the real bests don't have waf titles... Hence I think that waf is NOT the holy grail of armwrestling and many waf medalists and winners get cracked by non waf competitors simply because the price tag and location doesn't make sense.
Tell me... Who are the best guys ?...
Brzenk, larratt, cyplenkov, Todd, hutchings... How many waf titles do they have accumulated ?... Don't think too hard.
I could make a hefty list of guys who don't compete at worlds but are more than on that level.
I'm sorry... But in my eyes... If you crack a 235 brzenk... You are the fu(kin cats a$$ !!... Keep the medals because if you beat that lowly ual champ... You can call yourself the man.
Now, in reality, until all teams get fully funded to go through a more discriminating system then the competitor list will always be lack and not to it's potential .
Also, a bracket system is horrid to find the best guy in a room... We understand this all too well.
Too many times do the clear 1. And 2 meet early on and because of this number 4 shimmies to the gold... It's bogus.
Finding who the "best" is can only be through narrowed down single matches where champions can be crowned and put in a spot to defend... Fresh and ready each opponent... The cream will rise to the top.
This is professional system... waf ... In my mind is amateur... Yes, the guys are talented and as good as 99% of contracted guys... But WAF isn't the only test... I personally think it is just another tournament... Tougher than most, but that's the sum of it.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Feb 4, 2014 12:23:17 GMT -5
I think at this point more options are better. The competition will keep promoters and Leagues pushing to be the best. I look at it like MMA. Right now we are starting to look like MMA did a while back when there were multiple big money promoters (PRIDE,UFC,Strikeforce,Bellator,Affliction). They all competed and brought the sport to the mainstream, and eventually the cream (UFC) rose to the top. There are still other promotions, but now they are proving grounds to get to the UFC. The thing is with MMA, the smaller promotions don't get butt hurt because they are small. They OWN their spot in the world of MMA, and that's to get the next up-and-comer to the UFC. In Colorado we have small local promotions like Kickdown that do mostly Amateur fights and Pro debuts. Then there is Ring of Fire that does mostly Pro fights that the UFC uses to fish fighters from. They take pride in the fact that they were the ones that brought so and so fighter to the UFC. The way I would like to see it happen, and please don't take offense, it's just my opinion and I greatly appreciate all promoters. 1. Small local state events will bring out the new comers and test them. If they start dominating there, they will naturally move onto number 2. (Kickdown = USAA/AAA/smaller tournaments) 2. National and bigger events and/or Professional Promotion tournaments will be used to fish puller from to be signed. These will be used to build the pullers' resumes.(Ring of Fire = USAF Nationals/AAA Nationals/USAA Nationals/WAF/UAL Tournaments) 3. These will be the signed pullers that will only compete in the promotion they sign with. (UFC = UAL  ) The issue that we have at the moment is the signed pullers are all over the place between 1 and 3. Tournaments between 1 and 2 aren't all affiliated so signed pullers can't pull as much as they would like (Not an issue to me since MHAS and NMAS are affiliated ). I believe this will be remedied in time, but it's going to take time. I believe that if this sport is going where we all hope it will go, this is the structure that it's going to have to conform to. No hurt feeling, just doing what you do, the best that you can do it, and owning your place in the food chain. |
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Post by Jeremy Chaudoin on Feb 4, 2014 12:32:13 GMT -5
In regard to leagues in the US. All I can think is "too many Chiefs and not enough Indians". I don't see all the leagues submitting to one banner.
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