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Post by Robert Drenk on Mar 3, 2014 12:53:40 GMT -5
Ryan,
Great Question, the contracts are for a period of time and at the end of such period one can renegotiate or walk away and join another league. For detailed info send me an email at Robert@TheUAL.com and we can send you a NDA and a contract to see for yourself.
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Post by Robert Drenk on Mar 3, 2014 12:59:58 GMT -5
Bill, Maybe thats why they didn't make it? no exclusivity and no return on investment. What I'm trying to do is get the return so I can continue to invest. All of these great people that gave the opportunity to the athletes got ZERO return and thats why they're gone so maybe what I'm doing is what was missing? I'm not interested in following suit to those that tried and didn't last I'm interested in trying something new that gives me a shot at making it through the ages so this wonderful Sport has a future.
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Post by Kris Mikels on Mar 3, 2014 13:16:12 GMT -5
Robert I see u mentioned that u will be adding a featherweight class... That is a great Idea to help gather more lightweights there are a lot of great lb for lb pullers that are overlooked in a 0-165 class I'm interested to see what the weight is
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Post by Robert Drenk on Mar 3, 2014 13:27:51 GMT -5
Kris 0-150 feather weight 151 - 165 Light weight 166 - 185 Middle Weight and so on
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Post by Bill Collins on Mar 3, 2014 13:30:58 GMT -5
I don’t get on the board much and I’m not a fan of political crap nor the new way of doing business (in some cases). I been in this sport for 30+ years and put on over 250 events and I predicted crap is going to happen when this sport get’s legitimatized, some good and some bad! Nobody likes changes..
Robert and I play two different rolls in the UAL, he takes of the business aspects and I can take care of the operations of the event, each supporting the other, he don’t tell me what to do and I don’t tell him…
This sport is growing and now is the time, you don’t see fighters crossing each other organization and when this REALLY blows up your going to see it be more concrete, UAL is taking the blow but it already happening folks, rather we like it or not….WAL is signing and PAL is signing..
Business side: Robert always has a reason behind is decisions in this case it’s his (ours) company and like all business owners rules apply, and since they apply to everybody no one should have a problem with that. If you wanna get in the money...sign with the UAL...why is that a problem? You wanna get down with the UAL and take advantage of the prize money then sign up! The only organization who is not affiliated is WAL and USAA that I know of so a signed athlete has many options.
So I have to ask, me being the first to answer , out of my 250 events how many times did I not give out money? Answer: a crap load and how many of you promoters put on an event and not give out money? Answer: A crap load! Kind of sounds double standards and it will continue as every promoter has done their fair share…
I found out long ago you can't make everyone happy so you have to do what’s best for the business..
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Post by Jacob Hale on Mar 3, 2014 15:14:23 GMT -5
John you don't know what you're talking about... I can tell you must be a spokes model for WAL huh. UAL is lowering the entry fee for the casual athlete, making it more affordable to compete. With that said we pay the top 3 spots of 5 weight classes in which most of the time it's a UAL signed athlete that wins so who are you talking about? Maybe 5-10 people? Most people Armwrestle for the love of the sport, they pull for pride and they come to the UAL to "experience" a professional league with the best refs and smooth tournament. We are enhancing the league by paying deeper, adding a feather weight class for a better competition and increasing the payout total for the serious athlete. We have and will continue to give out top notch metals as well. Yes we're wanting to pay the serious athletes that are willing to be contracted to the UAL, we want the UAL loyal athletes to get paid and paid enough so that they can train harder and travel with less losses. If that means we lose a few other organizations athletes then so be it, but in the end were trying to give people an opportunity at making it more than just a hobby. The UAL athletes are not limited to just UAL events we have over 20 affiliated organizations that they can compete at and win money. Maine State Championships just took place Sat ( UAL affiliate ) and had a huge turnout with over 100 entries and the overall winner was a UAL contracted athlete. Bottom line is with TV networks contracts are needed, because I'm the only one verbally talking about it I'm taking the heat but I've got news WAL is signing people too. They will require people to be exclusive as well once they line up A TV deal. I hear a lot of you saying they have a TV deal all I see is an AMC logo next to a WAL logo. I'm sure the groups are working together but no offense there's a huge difference in how the UAL runs and looks at this sport then the event I just saw unfold. Go Go dancers ?? Come on now! Anyways I'm not trying to bash anyone but if you're trying to spread your opinion just know I'll be quick to set things straight. For those reading, I highly suggest you look into what we have coming down the pipe and see how we portray your image and the sport then make a decision as to what organization you want to be a part of. Robert Drenk I think Barack Obama needs to consider you for his next press secretary because this is spin at its finest. John Wilson made a comment, you chimmed in and said he didn't know what he was talking about, and then went on to reiterate everything John said. I understand and respect the fact that you want to focus on just the sunny side of your decision here to only pay contracted UAL athletes. However, it will be to your demise if you do not recognize the validity of the negative side and unintended consequences of that decision. John Wilson and others are correct. You offer no reasonable incentive for new talent to participate in UAL because either A) they cant make any money at a UAL or affiliated event or B) they can't make money anywhere else. This is bound to only decrease participation from athletes over time and thus decrease your prize $$ pool with it. This has the same "death spiral" logic as Obamacare. On the flip side of it, I do see where you are coming from Robert. If I were in your shoes I don't think I would feel different about this than you. You have dumped a lot of money into the sport with no return thus far and you want to shore up as much market share now before the big boys swallow you up. I get it. However at the end of the day, the writing is on the wall. It has nothing to do with dancers, production quality, grips, athlete loyalty, or anything else. The only thing that matters is money. If you do not have the money to compete with GOA/WAL then you can't win this. It's that simple.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 15:18:13 GMT -5
just for the record ual puller won one wieght class an there was no over all winner!!
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 3, 2014 15:39:37 GMT -5
Jacob hale: I have to disagree with some of what you said. how is the fact that the UAL only pays signed athletes going to be his demise? how many tournaments have you (and your AW friends)spent your money and time to train for...travel to, and compete in that you knew had ZERO payout? that is the norm in armwrestling. IMO you are greatly overstating the effect that a cash payout has on the willingness of AWers to participate. the UAL productions are the premier events in the country right now....and I don't see why people are so afraid??? afraid of what? that you will be enslaved and robbed of the millions your going to make elsewhere by signing with the UAL??? get serious. signing with the UAL is free....so I just don't get why anyone has such a problem with it. and a 20 dollars sign up fee? for the kind of promotion and production that the UAL provides? that's unheard of! ive never been to a tournament with a 20 dollar sign up fee and most of them were in crappy locations with non existent promotion and z list production quality. what we have here is simple: a bunch of people sitting back and playing devils advocate. trying to find an axe to grind. please stop. armwrestlers have ALWAYS traveled, trained, and competed knowing full well that there was zero chance of a payback of any kind other than the joy of competition and the honor of victory....so why the change of heart now? why is it that some of you seem to act as thought competing without getting paid is such a problem??? wanna get paid??? sign with the UAL!!! damn this just blows my mind. theres no reason to be complaining. really. but ive been in the business of dealing with people long enough to know that some of you will ALWAYS bitch...no matter what. some of you will always take the role of "opposition" .....be it from jealousy, fear, boredom, or a social handicap....but all of oyou need to remember...sometimes....its just you.
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 3, 2014 15:53:40 GMT -5
the point im tryin to make in rebuttal to some of the fears ive heard on here about Roberts decision is this:
the large majority of armwrestlers will not mind competing in an event at witch there is no payout for them because this is nothing new. although if they were thinking more clearly they would go ahead and sign just to have the opportunity.
interestingly, what this does is weed out those who do not think they can win a UAL event because of the deep talent pool that is attracted by the large payouts. although it shouldn't be that what ultimately this is what will / has happened. the guys who cant win complain about it...the ones that can are cool with whatever. lol
either you are an armwrestling sportsman or not...if you are then support the best thing going for armwrestling right now....the UAL. you may not agree with every little detail but its hard to argue that what Robert is doing is not pushing things in the right direction. lets get some traction as a group...get this thing off the ground...gain some respect and recognition for the sport and oitrselves as athletes ....then we can iron out details.
so many of you act like you have soooo much to lose...lol its really funny.
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Post by Mike West on Mar 3, 2014 16:26:09 GMT -5
Mike you can go be serious with another group, UAL has serious athletes as well thats all my point was. As far as signing athletes yes we offer any puller to sign and compete in the UAL male and female. We offer guaranteed money contracts to our top level athletes that take the Sport on at a professional level. look I'm done arguing with you, theres people that obviously want to go a different direction and thats there choice you seem to be one of them and once again its your right to do so. I wish you the best and ill see you in Reno at Nationals as you enjoy the event we The UAL are hosting That may be your point now, but that's not what you've been saying Robert. I have and many others have been serious about this sport for many years, where ever we went to pull. And you still didn't answer the question.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Mar 3, 2014 16:27:04 GMT -5
just for the record ual puller won one wieght class an there was no over all winner!! Just to clarify your record... This ual guy won supers both hands (supers being the strongest guys in 99.9% of any event)..., then I beat the 235 winner in my class... And john Cervantes and bill sinks are ual guys who took firsts in their class left and right... Just sayin.
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Post by John Wilson on Mar 3, 2014 16:38:06 GMT -5
Hey Max,
Years ago, John Brzenk made a comment in Armbender magazine that I didn't truly appreciate at the time, but I do now. He said that he was frustrated with the sport and had thought of retiring out of frustration...that the sport would never be legitimate until organizers found a way to stop financing the sport on the backs of the competitors themselves.
I'm paraphrazing because that article was something I read probably almost twenty years ago, and I'm sure I've botched it some, but I think I've stayed true to the premise. John was absolutely right, of course. I didn't get it because I was still fairly new to the sport and I still thought like most new guys that the sport was always on the threshold of something big- because somebody said so.
If I can steal a line from Steven "Tank" Sears: 'If you got rim payments, you aren't really ballin."
Well, if your event is still collecting entry fees to balance the cost of the event and pay for the trophies, you ain't exactly "blowing up". That was John's point and he is right.
Usually, the value a person places on something has more to do with that person's options than anything else.
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 3, 2014 16:51:51 GMT -5
john...lol...are you really claiming to be so naïve? you really think that ALL armwrestlers are good sportsmen? and you really think that armwrestlers don't shy away from events that they know they cant win? in a sport where the only prize to be won is "pride".....do you really think that a great number of these participants aren't afraid of having that pride stepped on??? I find all of these things very unlikely. if I misunderstood you r statement then I am sorry.... and how exactly are all these quotes about the promoters making the armwrestlers carry carry the burden relevant to the UAL? they do charge and entry fee....but certainly you don't entertain that this meager offering in any way covers the kind of coin that Robert is putting in. are you and others really suggesting that we shouldn't have to pay entry fees? idk...seems a bit avant-garde....but if im not mistaken the UAL is doing just that for its top contenders....so I fail to see the relevance.
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Post by John Wilson on Mar 3, 2014 16:55:47 GMT -5
I think you have misread what I wrote.
Edit: it's my fault. I deleted half of what I wrote for the sake of brevity, and I inadvertantly deleted the main point.
re-reading it, it doesn't even make sense to me. I'll fix it.
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 3, 2014 17:01:27 GMT -5
lol aha
its all good.
I think that the UAL (and the WAL for that matter) are the best chance armwrestling has right now of realizing the dream of expense paid , fully funded armwrestling leagues. but it will take unity and support for this to happen. if we keep chopping down the very means of our progression then it will not make realizing the "dream" that john brzenk had when he said that he didn't like the fac t the the AWers foot the bill for everything...and I agree...but one must be realistic. crawl before you walk...and give support (and support does not mean money necessarily) by acknowledging the fact that there are f=great things happening in armwrestling rightnow and the UAL is at the forefront. it chaps a lot of asses to admit this but its true...sorry...I have no dog in the fight...hell im "retired" lol....don't know Mrt Drenk or any other promoter for that matter...but I know a good thing when I see one.
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