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Post by David Owens on Mar 4, 2014 19:52:20 GMT -5
From Kyle Darby
First this thread is a passive aggressive attempt to slander. This sport will always be plagued with seperation and conflict. Why? Because that is the environment the majority of promoters have worked so hard to create.
The reason everyone goes to any event is to armwrestle. A non-contracted athlete has incentive to go to a UAL event for the experience. If they want money and exposure because they might want to sign the affiliate program is a good option.
I love this sport because the people and I hate it for the same reason. "YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE! "
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 5, 2014 9:40:50 GMT -5
Latest update... If you enter a Pro class and place in the money you will not receive any prize money unless you are a "contracted" athlete. What's next...... Kyle there is nothing slanderous about telling the truth. This idea of letting pullers in a class but not letting some in the class get prize money while letting others get the prize money has never been done. NEVER. So yes it should be questioned. Do they have the right to do so......yes you can do it if everyone knows ahead of time that is what is about to happen. Frankly this is an open attempt to make the top level pullers that haven't signed, to do so. It's not like Vazgen is going to pull at an UAL event without the chance at prize money. It will also "protect" the UAL athletes from losing to non UAL pullers since the top level unsigned pullers will not come if they can't get the prize money that they place for. I don't understand the almost cult like response to anything that even remotely resembles criticism of anything UAL is doing. The facts are the facts.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Mar 5, 2014 13:18:57 GMT -5
Have you ever heard the expression, "It's not what you say, but how you say it" Leonard?
It's not that this policy is forbidden to be discussed in a professional and objective matter, it is the way that the information is presented and the tone that the post takes that is the issue. To deny this would be foolish.
Let's be real, everyone has an agenda, whether they admit it or not. There are plenty of people that have taken issue with what the UAL is doing or has done, past and present, and they will continue to poke at this organization whenever they feel like it. That's fine, but let's not hide their true motives behind the veil of objectivity and legitimate conversation.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 5, 2014 16:16:26 GMT -5
Have you ever heard the expression, "It's not what you say, but how you say it" Leonard? It's not that this policy is forbidden to be discussed in a professional and objective matter, it is the way that the information is presented and the tone that the post takes that is the issue. To deny this would be foolish. Let's be real, everyone has an agenda, whether they admit it or not. There are plenty of people that have taken issue with what the UAL is doing or has done, past and present, and they will continue to poke at this organization whenever they feel like it. That's fine, but let's not hide their true motives behind the veil of objectivity and legitimate conversation. You can imply any motive that you want but for some of us not on facebook or frankly where ever Denise got this info, I had no idea of this policy. Period Frankly I didn't ask where it came from but this was definitely news and for you or anyone else to imply that we are trying to slander UAL is crazy. I am friends with Bill Collins and both Denise and I have said that we hope that UAL gets the TV coverage. It will help all promoters. Do I like how they are doing it......no but that is their right to manage UAL however they see fit. Paranoia is not always a good thing
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Mar 5, 2014 16:34:53 GMT -5
Leonard, the original post on this thread was:
"Latest update... If you enter a Pro class and place in the money you will not receive any prize money unless you are a "contracted" athlete. What's next......"
If you can't read into that as a leading statement, I don't know what to tell you. Are you stating that the "What's next..." wording was not in any way critical of UAL and the announcement of this policy? Come on now, we are all adults, and I think the tone is quite obvious. I am not a UAL kool-aid drinker, and I do not think there is anything wrong with discussing policy changes, addressing both pros and cons. For you to tell me that there was no motive in making this thread, however, is quite laughable.
I have no problem with you and Denise and think your collective contributions to armwrestling are substantial, however this thread was passive aggressive from the start and was meant to elicit negative reactions towards the UAL's policy.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 5, 2014 16:56:57 GMT -5
Leonard, the original post on this thread was: "Latest update... If you enter a Pro class and place in the money you will not receive any prize money unless you are a "contracted" athlete. What's next......"If you can't read into that as a leading statement, I don't know what to tell you. Are you stating that the "What's next..." wording was not in any way critical of UAL and the announcement of this policy? Come on now, we are all adults, and I think the tone is quite obvious. I am not a UAL kool-aid drinker, and I do not think there is anything wrong with discussing policy changes, addressing both pros and cons. For you to tell me that there was no motive in making this thread, however, is quite laughable. I have no problem with you and Denise and think your collective contributions to armwrestling are substantial, however this thread was passive aggressive from the start and was meant to elicit negative reactions towards the UAL's policy. I would not have added the what's next but really that is exactly a good question. Never has an organization done something like this. It is unheard of. Again I repeat that UAL can do as it wishes. Is it critical of UAL, absolutely as it should be. It is something that the USAA would never do. This is just my opinion as we all have one. None of this has anything to do with the ultimate goal of the UAL getting tv but about forcing pullers to either contract or just stay away.
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Post by David Owens on Mar 5, 2014 18:28:50 GMT -5
From Kyle Darby
Leonard,
Bryan hit the nail on the head.
Furthermore I'm not speaking on anyone's behalf just mere observation. Everyone has an opportunity to sign everyone. Some have been very vocal even blatantly disrespectful. Nobody in their right mind is gonna give money to someone that stabs you in the back. On top of that you'll scratch the backs of those that scratch yours. Skill aside slander and disrespectful judgment, comments still carry weight in the real World. I don't see Igor or Marcin on here bashing anyone or questioning policies.
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 5, 2014 18:38:00 GMT -5
Leonard, the original post on this thread was: "Latest update... If you enter a Pro class and place in the money you will not receive any prize money unless you are a "contracted" athlete. What's next......"If you can't read into that as a leading statement, I don't know what to tell you. Are you stating that the "What's next..." wording was not in any way critical of UAL and the announcement of this policy? Come on now, we are all adults, and I think the tone is quite obvious. I am not a UAL kool-aid drinker, and I do not think there is anything wrong with discussing policy changes, addressing both pros and cons. For you to tell me that there was no motive in making this thread, however, is quite laughable. I have no problem with you and Denise and think your collective contributions to armwrestling are substantial, however this thread was passive aggressive from the start and was meant to elicit negative reactions towards the UAL's policy. dude don't waste your breath. hypocrisy is nearly incurable and impossible revert. I guess taking EVRYBODY's entry fee and making EVERYBODY spend their travel money to come your event and not offer a single dollar in return is so much better than only paying the pullers that are willing to sign up with your organization. Goebbels was quoted as saying: it is easier to kill a million men than to change the mind of only one. let it go.
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Post by Robert Drenk on Mar 6, 2014 1:42:32 GMT -5
I see some people like to throw stones while living in a glass house.... Leonard we will do as we see fit, it's not like I'm running a non profit organization and laundering it to my trophy company. Were making it known that non contracted athletes will pay 1/2 the entry fee but simply not get a cash payout instead they will get the experience of competing in our event and a medal which is more than worth $20, we wish to reward our "contracted" athletes with huge payouts. Thanks for your concern
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Post by David Marrocco on Mar 6, 2014 9:38:27 GMT -5
Ok enough, I have been in business for 21yrs It's NOT good practice to slander AKA talk crap about other companies. Robert is trying to do something Good for our sport. Worry about your own Organization that should be the Focus!!!!!! If you don't like it don't Arm Wrestle it's that Simple.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Mar 6, 2014 10:10:56 GMT -5
I see some people like to throw stones while living in a glass house.... Leonard we will do as we see fit, it's not like I'm running a non profit organization and laundering it to my trophy company. Were making it known that non contracted athletes will pay 1/2 the entry fee but simply not get a cash payout instead they will get the experience of competing in our event and a medal which is more than worth $20, we wish to reward our "contracted" athletes with huge payouts. Thanks for your concern Oh yea you got me there Robert, I was raking in the dough laundering money at 3.00 per shirt printed and awards averaged out between 4.69 each and 6.77 each depending on whether it was a regular tournament or a state level event. Yep it was awesome. Yep break that glass house for me Hey how about you coming up with someone who will even match the prices that I was giving USAA. I was making so much money on it that I got out of the business and moved to Oregon. You know how it is, the suitcases can only hold so much of that cash, laundering that money.
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Post by Max Moore on Mar 6, 2014 15:21:21 GMT -5
Ok enough, I have been in business for 21yrs It's NOT good practice to slander AKA talk crap about other companies. Robert is trying to do something Good for our sport. Worry about your own Organization that should be the Focus!!!!!! If you don't like it don't Arm Wrestle it's that Simple. exactly. see....most people are smart enough to know exactly what the point of starting this thread was....and it was not to be informative.
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Post by Steve Inzalaco on Mar 7, 2014 15:56:49 GMT -5
Robert Drenk...is there a way to be a signed UAL athlete without having to give the organization our social security numbers and other private Information? If on paper since its sorta a employer/employee relationship...are the pullers covered on any type of workers compensation or insured somehow if a injury takes place?
The AAA I recall had membership dues. Can the UAL implement a similar type of organization/armwrestler relatiobship? I love what you are doing bro. Its creating an interesting vibe in the sport, by finally giving pullers an option in what they want to do in their career as an armwrestler.
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Post by Tom Stanley on Mar 7, 2014 23:07:52 GMT -5
this is the way I see it. I love this sport I have not had the time to pull lately " work mainly " but you all will see me soon enough. bla bla... I think I got to give credit to any promoter to ANY tourney lots of behind the scene B.S most people don't know about. so imo they can charge whatever they see fit, prize money is a plus but you got to look what the tourney is, UAL is an business , the contracted pullers are their investment, you need to keep you're investments happy or you have no business the open class is a stage to prove yourself to MAYBE be a contracted puller if you have the stuff... get it? simple math and if you don't like it oh well life goes on.... Leonard you guys always put on sweet tourneys love the 5.00 shirts that's what its all about
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Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on Mar 8, 2014 0:13:53 GMT -5
The open class is not a stage to maybe be a contracted puller. Everyone can be a contracted puller or so it seems.
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