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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 21, 2005 19:17:51 GMT -5
I have been away from the internet for a while and so i missed all that that was said and i dont really feel like readin 10 pages of stuff.
I really love the religous subjects. (check past threads)
Id really like to start a new thread about this.
lets start with this.....
From what i have read so far. You seem to be quite confident, perhaps a lill too confident.
From your scriptures and mine the word of God says in Proverbs
16:5. Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
16: 18-19 18. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. 19. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
However in Jeremiah it states
9: 23. Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24. But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.
Meaning that you in your strength should not boast and i havent seen were your post were made jokingly.
You do seem to boast about knowing God and i respect that. However as a disclaimer i must state that you do not understand and know God fully because you do not accept Christ and the son of God and the messiah.
And lastly on may way to church i state that. If it were sin to armwrestle you shouldnt do it any day of the week.
What glory does it give God for you to be so disciplined on the sabath and not the rest of the week?
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Post by Tim Elliott on Sept 22, 2005 16:29:22 GMT -5
Mt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. The biggest problem I have with Gabe is that there is no consistency. By that I mean at times he will sound very sincere about his faith. Then he will use language that absolutely is not the fruit of a true Child of God. I may be coming across rather bold but this is my life's aim and goal. I feel that true Christians aren't bold enough. (sometimes) Last night at church my pastor made the statement that a Christians duty is to mix boldness with compassion. The trouble is to know that mixture. However when someone claims to know God and their fruits don't bear that out at all times then it is time for boldness. Gabe, I must say that with all due respect we MUST show consistency in our lives or our LIGHT will NEVER shine. We can't frustrate and aggravate people and then smooth it over with a "just believe" attitude, that will only confuse people and make them angry. Lastly. I am only saying all this to you to try and help you. I think you are sincere, just sincerely wrong.
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Post by Jeremy Plaster on Sept 22, 2005 18:02:37 GMT -5
I NEVER thought I would be happy to see Ryan Thames responding to a subject matter concerning religion. lol! But in this case, I am glad you're here to talk with this guy
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Post by gambit on Sept 22, 2005 18:09:44 GMT -5
I concur !
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 22, 2005 20:25:36 GMT -5
Tim,
I totaly agree. Christians arent bold enough.
See as Christians We must identify The problem that Christ had with the religious jews.
He warned them in many ways that it isnt about your works but about your faith and the object of it. (being the promise of salvation through the remision of sin throught a blood sacrifice of the lamb of God)
You can have all the faith you want but if it is not place in Christ its in vain.
You can believe in God all you want but if you dont trust him and acknowledge his plan of salvation by recieving his son you reject him.
Lets think logicaly and theologicaly.
Gabe hasnt accepted Christ as Messiah and savior. So the spirit of god does not abide in him therefore he cannot show consistant fruit
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 22, 2005 23:53:44 GMT -5
no. because the true jew who wanted to serve God believed and trusted him to provide a sacrifice. So even they believe in jesus christ and him crucified. Where as other jews would believe in God but they thought just becuase they were jewish in the flesh that they were going to enter the kingdom, but thats incorrect theology. Sure they believed in god but most didnt quite grasp the reason they performed animal sacrifice was to cover sin, so that they could be consider "right" with God. The animal sacrifices were symbolic of Gods sacrifice. Because of sin we are seperated from God. God designed a sarificial system in order for man to continue to have a relationship with him. This sacrificial system was not good enough to cleanse you of sin, only to cover your sin, so to speak. Because it was you and your efforts bringing an animal that represented the coming sacrifice. It wasnt until the actual lamb was slain that the spirit of God could live in the believer. God is holy. He can not abide in an unclean vessel. when Christ was slain and you put your faith in him the spirit of god abides in you and you are transformed into a new creature. Not by your works but by the works of the holy spirit. I think this post was rather repeatitive. and i dont think i hit all tha points i wanted but i reckon there is always next time ........oh yea Before Christ was slain all those people who trusted in Gods redepmtion plan went to aplace called Abrahams bossom, or paridise (this is the same paradise jesus was refering to when he spoke to the theif on the cross). This was not heaven, it was hell, but....it was a comforted side of hell. the demons could not harm them and the devil had no claim on them. They had to go here because they were not yet covered in the blood of christ making them holy in the eyes of god, they could not enter heaven with God. When Christ died on the cross he went down to this place and "put a whoopin' on the devil. He conquered death, hell and the grave. He released those held in paradise. and they are in heaven now. After which he was resurrected and live for 40 days and then ascended into heaven to be seated at the right hand of the father.
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Post by gabeyak on Sept 23, 2005 0:03:10 GMT -5
i dont want to say this in the open, but im left with no choice... i searched at one point in my life i looked into religions and i compared, proofs etc i say to you to do so too, in all honesty if christian is the right way i wouldve went there, but i researched and there are many proofs that i found and will not go into detail. if anything search up on this guy Tuvia Singer (or Tovie Singer) and he specializes in proofs read up on his PROOF's again i dont want to offend no one but i say if anyting this is my response. find absolute proof of all you believe in, make sure you KNOW it for sure and are not cutting yourself short for anything
Tim Elliot, saying: never judge a man unless your in his shoes... cuase i used the word "Hell" you said about language??? "hell yeah" ?? like i said i heard you out and maybe i should change it (tho i dont see enough reason to change that vocab)... please, its easy to search in others, the difference is who is the one who is heading in the right path and fixing him up and who is not.
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Post by josephsirois on Sept 23, 2005 0:26:36 GMT -5
This is one of the very reasons I have no religion. Two people of two different faiths so very certain in their own beliefs. Either one of you is correct or neither of you.
I gave up arguing it a while ago, light discussion is possible but not very likely.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 23, 2005 1:06:22 GMT -5
They are separated from God. They are dominated by their sin nature. They have not accepted christ as their savior. Only an acceptance of Christ and him crucified, an acceptance in Gods plan plan of redemption will save anyone regardless of the situation.
jesus said no man comes to the father except through the son.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 23, 2005 1:23:30 GMT -5
Gabe,
Saul of Taursus, the great apostle Paul of the christian church. He was a student of Gamileal one of, if not the highest ranking priest of isreal. Saul was set in place to assume gamileals position. from a young young boy he was taught nothing but to remember the law of moses. He knew the law Better than anyone on the planet next to gamileil. This was his life it was what he was created and raised for. If there was a jew who was closer to god than the next it was Saul. He persecuted the christians. he slaughtered them and he did it in the name of God. His heart was completly submitted to God... or so he thought. But he denied the Gospel of Christ. until God Showed himself to Saul. And revealed himself as Jesus Christ. Christ then showed Saul the meaning of the law and reveal to him the significance of the cross of Christ.
If i were to go to a jewish source to learn of the law i would go to Saul.
Why would saul in the greatest position a God loving Jew could be in. Sacrifice his life for something that was untrue? this was a man seeking God. And God revealed the truth to him. This man went through alot because of his conviction that Jesus Christ is Lord, Messiah and Savior. And He gave up his position as the most powerful man in isreal. For what? to be persecuted
Saul/Pauls conversion recorded in Acts 9
Acts 9
1. And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2. And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4. And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5. And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
P.S. Forgive me if i sound arrogant when i say this, but ive been studying this stuff for awhile. And over the years ive developed an above average education in this particular subject. It aint the greatest and could be way better.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 23, 2005 2:00:17 GMT -5
Galatians Chapter one very clearly lays out Pauls situation in a brief passage
Galatians 1
1. Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2. And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: 3. Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4. Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5. To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14. And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. 20. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. 21. Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; 22. And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: 23. But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. 24. And they glorified God in me.
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Post by Jeremy Plaster on Sept 23, 2005 10:52:54 GMT -5
I dissagree. I dont want to get into a huge conversation on where my personal faith lies right now. BUT..as a man who TRIES to live his life the right way, I believe that if Jesus is who the Bible says he is. And he is the Son of God- meaning there is heaven and hell.. and the bible is true... It was still written by men and its by man's hand that we read "God put the word into our mouths,hands,minds..etc.. So I STILL think there are points that are man's points in that book. I believe the one telling you that you must invite a spirit into your heart or burn in hell is wrong. If there is a God judging me in my life..I think I will be safe from hell based on the way I live my life. I try to treat anyone the same way I would want to be treated. I dont lie cheat or steal. I have a respect for human life. I think, IMO, that makes me safe. But Thats ME and I dont want to argue about it..or discuss it..lol Just stating that this is my opinion.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Sept 23, 2005 11:14:51 GMT -5
Your very welcome to state your opinoin. No condemnation from me. How ever It wasnt mans opinoin that your sin must be absolved. Your sin must be washed clean. god is a just God and a holy God. You may live the life of a good person. And i think thats great. But no matter how great you live and how holy you are. the word says there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. (only Christs blood was sufficient for an eternal sacrifice). Your sin must be washed away or you cannot enter heaven. and there is no other place but hell. There is no purgatory. This statment or idea that you must accept Gods plan of salvation goes all the way back to adam and eve and cain and abel. It was just what one or two guys said in the new testament.
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Post by josephsirois on Sept 23, 2005 11:45:30 GMT -5
Amen, reverend Plaster.
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Post by Jeremy Plaster on Sept 23, 2005 13:02:15 GMT -5
Ryan I am well aware of what the scripture says. I am rather educated on the Bible. I just dont care to talk much on it, ya know? And I never said I was great or holy. I said I try to live my life by doing what I feel is right. I am no greater than anyone else in the world, and I am definately not any more holy. I am not holy at all in fact. Joseph, I will be taking offerings now, thank you lol
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