Challenge or Pro Tournament

[simon]

Under the current circumstances* you have to have the smaller not as prestigious or well paying events in order to grow this sport, new comers need a medium to learn progress and get better. I personally believe that people that are beyond that or on the upper end of this sport need to support those events as well, the promoters need top level pullers to help with the validity of the event and the new comers benefit both in their skill and their desire to compete in this sport by the presence and or assistance of the upper level pullers. Call this grass roots armwrestling if you will and there is a great deal of unselfish goodhearted passion for this sport that goes into this level of events, particularly by the promoters.

Now the upper end events, as in Christian’s example a 4 way or more invitation only super class with Engin, Cvetan, Cobra and Babeyev is a great idea, but their presence in an upper end event though they are far above the majority of us again helps to sell the event and validate the significance of the event for the promoter, something they sorely need if they are going to continue to get support for the event.

I like the idea of supermatches due to the structure and ability to promote it; if you know these 4 guys are going to be there you really can build it up well in advance. There is a lot that can be done with a controlled set of combatants. Now having said that, holding super matches in conjunction with regular events can send and interesting message, such as that the guy that wins the class near the supermatch weight is really not that good, he is at a lower level, hence why he was not in the supermatch.

Certainly fewer classes are needed to promote larger events, I say this knowing that it does not behoove me to have this position being a smaller puller but it is tough to get the world interested when the weights and pullers are vast and beyond their capacity to remember and follow consistently.

Under the current circumstance* everything has its place, grassroots events, larger events, national/world events and supermatches, I do not see any reason we should not be grateful for each and every one of them, sure I would love to see a great deal more for all pullers and right after I win the lottery you will.

Right now as it is* it has a natural selection, natural progression feel to it, you start out grassroots, you move to national/worlds/major events then you may advance to amongst the elite pullers in or around a weight and you become supermatch material.

Back to the original question, if you are going to have supermatches with larger money going to one guy out of 4 or 5 then you should probably be prepared to have very good footage of it and get it on TV, because I am not sure there is a lot of value to having such matches for the enjoyment of people that are already in love with the sport. If no such option exists, I say spread the money around with classes fitting what level of event you are holding. I also think there is more ways than cash to promote an event or draw good talent, the Harley was always a great motivator just as an example.

[enginterzi]

i very like reading your posts too.because you are very intelligent.the bad thing about me is that i say everything i believe straightly without being worried about what my close friends or other will think about.the number one reason that im going to vegas is Fox Sports will show this event.you guys in US are lucky to be shown on ESPN lately.this is what armwrestling and armwrestlers deserve.but we all are part of a great family,and i believe that beginners,amateurs,masters and ladies should have chance to be known by public.of course that they cant be as famous as Brzenk for surely he deserved to be mentioned as the best armwrestle forever.i personally believe that some steps that we make may benefit us for a certain point,but i believe that the steps that we will make shouls also serve the future of armwrestling.beginners are the ppl who just joins us from the public,and public is the power,public is the future.of course that we must have heroes like Brzenk,Bath,Bagent,Girdner and others to get attention,but at same time we must encourage and make them believe that they will have chance to be a good armwrestler if not great.we must not play unreachables.out there many ppl who has ability,strength and wisdom to be future Brzenks.only thing i want is a bridge between the top armwrestler and a beginner.i dont want them to get discouraged and just to be watchers of armwrestling.there are many things that i probably am miscalculating too.more we get armwrestling in the public more we will be taken seriously.im tired of ppl asking me if there is a sport that called armwrestling.im afraid to tell ppl that im an armwrestler,some makes fun,or look at me with weird eyes.we all deserve better than this.im so happy that ESPN has been showing US competetions,its great and you guys deserve this,even much more than this.we all should support eachother and we must not put our own benefits over the future of the sport.professionalism is great,but no need to humiliate amateurism.they deserve respect and support as much as we pros do.in almost every sport amateurism is the root and beginning of professionalism,so we better not cut the roots of professionalism by discouraging amateurism,so new Brzenks and Baths can join us.

[Gary Roberts]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Everyone has believed for soo long that it is difficult to get money pumped into this sport so they feel as if they have to settle for scraps of the sport industry. It doesn't have to be that way.

The Supermatches may not be the complete answer for the future but it was a great start and a sign for what is to come. Like Simon said, it is a great format that you can build up and get some hype going (that format definitely belongs on TV)

What it ultimately comes down to...is a "main event". I believe it is a great idea to build a regular tournament around some sort of "main event". Some great match up that people look forward to...or the best of the best going head to head.

This sport needs a true line drawn between the average armwrestler and the Pro Star armwrestler.

That is how every other sport grows. How many of you who played basketball wanted to "be like mike". How many people start playing golf a few years ago because Tiger Woods made it cool.

Having stars grows your sport.

Armwrestling doesn't have this. There is no lime light really in the world for the best of the best. They go to tournaments and blend right in with everyone else. The Supermatches were the first sign of this changing.

At the Chehalis Showdown and the Mike Gould Classic there were definitely signs of this changing. I heard mulitple people from the Classic saying "hey thats him...Travis Bagent" Asking for autographs and pictures.

Usually, only those who have been around a while know who the real stars are.

This could be a far fetched dream but someday I hope to fully sponsor pullers. You could be a sponsored athlete paid to travel and pull. An ARM TV puller. Only the best of the best would get this sponsorship. You could take a big tournament like Vegas and advertise a "main event" Strongest arm takes 50,000 home and a ARM TV sponsorship. (A series of matches so there would be no arguement who the best was on this day)

You could still have your regular pro and amateur tournament BUT with this main event advertising would be easy.

Advertise in all the major muscle magazines full page ads. (This was John Burgeson's idea: mag ads) Come get your 50 grand, "strongest arm". You would have a TV tie in and maybe win a cadillac SUV while your at it.

Then the world would tune in to watching all of these strong men get thrashed about by one of the best armwrestlers in the world.

The world's eyes would open up to how good you guys are.

How many professional body building athletes or just strong men in general wouldn't show up for 50 grand.

This is how you could get the general population more interested in the sport and at the same time you could still have huge payouts for the pro class (both men and ladies)

Then a possibility would be to take that to the next level. After having my ARM TV puller travel and make appearances. (We build them up as the star that they are)

Eventually others would have the opportunity to take that title away from them or join the ranks and be a sponsored athlete.

This would jump start the armwrestler who has the potential to be the greatest but there isn't enough motivation for them.

If a kid comes to a "main event" tournament then he can see who the stars are...and now maybe finally have their idol.

Maybe a pipe dream but, "I believe"

Gary Roberts
ARM TV

[CHRISTIAN BINNIE]

Harry: I said supermatches WITH a Tournament

Engin: So promoters aren't allowed to make money? The promoter mentioned in Chris Myers post is making the most money USING armwretlers? SO WHAT! The Armwrestlers are using him too.THEIR GETTING PAID! Or at least some are. If others aren't then thats their fault. And they are pulling armwrestlers they may NEVER get a chance to pull.

I saw more power to Igor!

So who is Big Daddy?


And whats with the N.Y. dig? ;D

[CHRISTIAN BINNIE]

You have the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL,etc all with farm sytems, minor leagues or other lower level Orgs that the pro leagues look for talent. Can be the same with a PAL in Poland or Supermatches with "tournaments " that could have a ranking system that "bumps " up a puller into the Supermatches.

[enginterzi]

[quote author=Christopher Myers link=board=general&thread=1112370370&start=4#0 date=1112372798 when promoters do it for free I am greatfull when they make some money I am not greatfull.
I think the only promoter on the whole planet right now who does the right thing by the competitors is Igor Mazerenko
[/quote]

show me where i wrote that promoters should not make money,please do this.i guess you read some of the posts and miss some points.

you know the big daddy,so dont ask me:)

[enginterzi]

i am gradeful to every one as long as only thing that they care isnt their own pocket.there are some ppl that cares only about their own pocket,and use ppl,in fact they use eachother and be advocate for eachother so they can stay strong and make more money by using our sport.i believe that both armwrestlers and promoters should make money.what i hate is certain ppl wants everything,wants to control everything because they are gods in their hearts.and they can even cheat to reach their goals if its necessary.and they left no desire in me to train because no matter how ready i will be,my result will be as they wish.I DONT WANT THAT!!!!! i want to get what i deserve,i dont want to lose because i dont kiss asses!!!!!!

[enginterzi]

Christian,i heard that you are invited to poland,its so nice.in fact im not suprised of your defending to certain ppl after i heard you were invited.i wish you the best of luck,be care ful with semerenko for he is so fast.you will kill pushkar without any competetion.i was invited twice and i rejected when i felt a bossy behaving.one day i may compete pal but it wont change my opinion about true World titles and my principals.

[Christopher Myers]

Guys sorry if I was not clear I would love for a promoter to make money why should he not...I am just saying when they hold events in far off places where they get promotional money from localities to solicit our event to come to there town, then they charge 30-50 in entrants fees for crappy T-shirt ( and sometimes not even that ) and a low budget trophy and they try to make only profit and nothing really good for the puller ... thats when I have a problem. Igor makes money and I hope he makes a lot but at lests all his A list guys get taken care of and the trophy's are second to none and the promotion and hype are great and there is decent money to win. there are other events that are good the Harley pull is great.. Mike Bowling picked people up at the airport he tried to get great rates on rooms and gave a great prize as well as good exposure to those who placed. The G.N.C. was great when it first came out before it was S.O.S.

Like I said every one will never see eye to eye , I am just saying wine and dine me before you f*** M*
dont be so obvious about how cheap trophy's and shirts when pullers listen to promoters brag about number of entries when a puller can do the math and see 150 entrants x 20 bucks = 3000 and they have at best 300.00 worth of trophys and t shirts and that is not to say that there are not sponsors also . I am a business minded man and I know there are expenses that cut into it I am not stupid but some people try to extract too much and not give us pullers the quality that we deserve........... I have never been to a better event than the 2004 Zloty I have been to many nationals from both orgs and to one worlds and many local and not local events and the Zloty reigned supreme Igor may have made a lot but at least he wined and dined me before he ( you know the rest )

Christopher Myers

[Steve Black]

Hey Engin bet you know where i stand. (being from N.Y.) ;D I like the super matches take the top guy's put them up against each other see who the best is great idea.

A pro is not just some one who has love for the sport a pro gets paid. There are a lot of great pullers out there but only a few who make $$ (pros).

I really think there should be a ranking system to define who's who. Then there can be events for every level.

1) pro open

2) b level

3) c level

4) novice


This is the way to get respect and recognition for our sport. How many times i have been to or seen a tourny that was said to be world class or national level and it wasen't. I my self have a world champion 1st place award and i have never won a nationals yet. what a joke . My point is people out side the world of armwrestling don't know who is good and who is not so if someone claims to be the best and gets his a$$ kicked by a non puller it makes the sport look like a joke. So a real ranking system would solve a lot of problems also if you were a sponser who would you want to wear your logo the first place guy or the guy who finnshed last. So rankings will even help with sponsers or so i believe.

Just my own thought's hope i did not offend anyone and i truly want what is best for the sport as a whole just like most of the armwrestlers i know.

[Christopher Myers]

way to go Steve !!!! you spoke up for once
MR Uncontraversial !!!

[Joe Bacca]

Steve, do u mean Gene Camps Worlds www.NYCarms.com is not the real & only Worlds...



LOL

[CHRISTIAN BINNIE]

Engin: I was sent on informal e-mail by Igor asking for personal info, for a possible match with Semerenko or Puskhar in Dec...I told Igor that I was nursing injuries and could make it after Vegas ( which I am not going now ) and before the Unifieds in August. I never heard back..

I don't think Igor would want someone who, if there was a ranking in the left Super heavyweights top ten, a person ranked around 3rd or 4th...Well maybe now 5th or 6th seeing how "THE BEST " lost to Sylvain and Devon last week. ;D

Who is big daddy?

Come to Pauls tomorrow at 5pm and get some Left!!!! ;D ;D

[Paul Maiden]

In my opion both have credit but i prefer the tournament standings rather than supermatches,
if we just went with supermatches we would more than likely lose our grass roots of armwrestling up and coming pullers,for the media and promotion of the sport it is very good as its short and sweet intense and exciting for the crowd and if your getting paid thats all the better,but you have to be a big name really to fit the bill,i mean who going to get excited about watching paul maiden vs joe bloggs apart from gettiing a few womans pantys dripping nobody.so i think this will detare alot of pullers to leave armwrestling or take something that will enhance their proformance to get them there quicker,which in turn make a mockery of all the good work WAF has done getting in the dope tests.

Tournaments in my eyes are what makes armwrestling exciting if you know the sport in a supermatch you may get Engin vs Cvetan one on one but tourny you may have Engin,Cvetan,Rustam,all the top eatern pullers the usa pullers the list goes on so then you have 20 top stars and for me thats better than watching 2 men. yes you may have your top guys in a class of 20 but it doesnt always work out they will finish 1 2 3 4 they may meet in the 1st round have a war then go against a chasing group puller and get beat if he or she has a easy pull 1st round anything can happen.
we need the guys who finish 5-20th in a class the ones that turn up every comp to show there love of the sport to help them grow, at one point even the greastest of pullers were just average and this should not be forgotten because from little acorns big trees grow to make these superstars so we need to keep as many as possible and keep having sucessful tournaments were ppl have worked so hard to acheive.
And if the Devoto team keeps acheiving these big comp prizes which there doing so great with at the moment with tv etc who knows were this could take us?
but i know id sooner stand on top of a winners spot listening to GOD SAVE OUR QUEEN rather than coming out to green day.

[guy]

Surprise!! Christian
I too agree that too many classes on a Pro-level ( not worlds or nationals) can be too many.
I also will never agree with Travis that a heaVY weight starts at 201 pounds Sorry.
I think 200 to 240 and 241 and over is fair.
Perfect eveidence was the last supermatch which Travis didnt have to even be in his Imposing Poland shape to win easily.
Just need more True heavy weights to step up to the plate in thge future. And i think they will.

Also Supermatches are good I believe too, But not when an individual has to dig in his own pocket to place a $1000 down. Especially one on one that is just gambling
And I personally had stated previously that If I put up a $1000 for a Supermatch ( can Ams) that there would be a drug test involved. And to the contrary there was no takers.. Sorry that is how I feel